I may finally do this ... '64 Spyder Convertible

[gregger59]

Hi all!

I've been lurking here and across the 'net for many years, feeding my curiosity about Corvairs. I have been wanting to get into the hobby ever since watching a neighbor of mine in Chicago do restoration work on Corvairs back in the '90s. (The bug really first bit in the 70's when a high school buddy of mine pulled up to our front curb in a red EM and I thought, that is too cool. At that time, I already thought early 60s cars were the bomb, and as a 17 year old I owned a '63 Galaxie that I would tune up, replace a fuel pump, etc.)

Based on advice here and elsewhere about which model year to buy, I'm looking for a '64 Spyder that has been restored somewhat recently and am prepared to pay market, which I've tracked on various sites such as Chris Shade's, Hemings etc. I don't want to spend the time needed for a project car. However, I'm certainly ready to handle maintenance and some repair work as it's needed. I have pretty decent mechanical skills but no experience "under the valve covers." I have replaced brakes, minor suspension components, engine accessories and so forth, but never mastered rebuilding anything bigger than a lawn-mower carburetor My wife is familiar with the sound of my cussing from under a car on the driveway...15 years of Volvo 4-cyl. maintenance/repair will do that.

So I found what (online) appears to be a nicely restored '64 Spyder which I need to drive about 4 hours to see in person. Why the Spyder? I like the cachet, relative rarity and slight performance edge of the Turbo.
Question: Do you think the complexity of maintenance will frustrate me?

My other question is, what things should I look for, even in a recently restored vehicle, that would amount to repairs costing thousands? (I'm fine with needing to correct/replace items off the bat that would cost hundreds). I have seen and read the very long checklists available here and will use them as best I can. And of course check out docs and receipts showing when work was done and by whom.

Sorry for the ramble. Even if I don't go through with this just yet, I plan to join Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts to start sponging up as much knowledge as possible, and also to find a good place for future repairs beyond my ken.

Comments appreciated, thanks!

[jimbrandberg]

They're not real complicated.
There's a lot of turbos around not making any boost. It would be nice get about halfway up the + side on the gauge. If it isn't making boost it's not always so simple as having the turbo rebuilt, often the turbo itself is okay.
The Carter YH can be a little finicky but if it's running good will often continue to run good. A lot of them are running too rich, maybe they can show you #1 spark plug since it's easy to get to. If you're paying big money they should be somewhat accommodating. If super rich like you can smell it or feel it in your eyes, sometimes the bladder for the accelerator pump just has a tear in it. For clearing when flooded the tab going into the choke should pull the choke plate open at wide open throttle.
The ignition system is archaic and lack of vacuum advance does not return good gas mileage. The Dale advance/retard can be a good thing but it's good to have something to block the vacuum at idle. A pressure retard has a nipple on the tube where the rubber hose goes on. If it has a vaccuum advance there could be a wrong distributor in there.
The 64 rear suspension can be somewhat soft and bouncy especially if someone has installed generic shock absorbers.
Excessive steering play is often the rubber "pitman arm bushing" on the center link, not too bad to replace. If it's the steering box itself it gets a lot more involved. If someone turns the steering wheel slightly over center you can look at the steering box to see if the pitman arm shaft is moving within its bronze bushing inside the steering box. You can also see if there's play in the rubber bushing on the end of the center link.
Going down the road if the rear has a sashay feel in the seat of your pants, the rear bushings and such are quite a time. If it feels spooky over road undulations the rear may not have proper toe-in.

The 64 engine should have a magnesium fan and harmonic balancer. If the rubber on the HB looks bad it's not so bad to replace it.
If you lay on the ground you can look inside the rear air ducts. If there's oil on the exhaust manifold clamps the pushrod tube o-rings are probably leaking.
You should not be able to see the ground inside the engine compartment on any of the 4 sides. The perimeter seals are tedious to replace.
It can be a bugger if the exhaust doesn't exit properly through the center of the Spyder body opening. The exhaust should have a rear hanger connected to the engine, not the chassis. The real Spyder exhaust opening in the body has a lip to it that is difficult to emulate.
Gear oil leaking out of the differential side seals where the axles go in can be a big deal. If you can get under there you can grasp the axles to check for radial play, I like to call it yoke slop.
EM rear wheel bearings are a big deal to replace. It's hard to get a feel for them without removing the drum to check the wheel flange for in and out play and/or a growly feel.
A 64 should have a dipstick to check the gear oil.

20 year old tires may look good but be trouble looming. You can look up about checking date codes. I would not use anything less than 185/80/R13, only available from Maxxis in a whitewall. I suppose 175 is okay on EM but anything less looks smallish in my view.

Gauges not working can get expensive, good used tachs and speedometers are getting hard to come by. Head temp thermisters on the engine are sometimes not working.

Rust around the trunk lid C O R V A I R letters is a common ailment. There is an oval drain hole under the rocker panel about 8" behind the front wheel well. I've seen them covered over by bodywork which is a big no-no. Stick you finger in the hole to see if it's plugged with dirt or debris. At home you can put the hose into the grille opening on top and clear the hole with your finger, it's surprising how much moisture holding stuff will come out of there. It should be a routine maintenance procedure for rust prevention.
The first place the floor usually rusts out is under the drivers feet.
The accelerator pedal should be easy to move with your hand, the swivel at the bottom gets hard to move and must be removed to the bench for lubrication.

It may have had metallic brake shoes to begin with, often long gone. They take a while to warm up.
You might try a little skid test from 3 MPH on some loose sand to see if all 4 brakes are doing something.

A 64 Spyder has a special model number, a 62-63 is like a Monza.

There I go running on and on, I can't seem to help myself.

[gregger59]

Wow! Thanks for taking so much time to lay out some of the common pitfalls. I can imagine you have a long list of people waiting for you to whisper to their Corvairs! Your guide to inspection is incredibly valuable. Someday you should make it into a video!

I can do my best on inspection to cover these items, but also will have to rely on the car's background, repair history and identifying who has been doing work on it to understand how well it's been maintained.

I live several hours' drive from its location and the car hasn't been driven much in the past year so I think a road trip would be risky. Might have to invest in getting it hauled back here and then have it professionally sorted.

Thank you again.

[Doug Ward]

Hi gregger, I was at California Corvairs today. Jeff showed me a beautiful '62 Spyder that he has for sale. He had previously restored this car, sold it,& then ended up buying it back. I think the buyer was just getting too old to enjoy these cars any longer
This car has a nice set of Minnie lite style wheels, new Goodyear tires, excellent red interior, tan top, & is Ermine white body. Very nice engine with some additional small parts chromed. I would say this car is about as nice as they come. Calif. Corvairs closes from Saturday thru Mondays. Give him a call after 10 AM on Tuesday. He can tell you more about it and send you pictures too. Good luck in your hunt.
BTW, I just got my '62 Monza convert home from the paint shop today. It's beautiful & I am stoked. Can't wait to get going on the reassembly now. Its Butternut yellow, black interior, new white top ( converted from a manual to a power top.) Works great.

[Doug Ward]

Gregger, I forgot to include Calif. Corvairs tel. #. Here ya go; 1-909-287-0741.

[jimbrandberg]

gregger 59 wrote: "Might have to invest in getting it hauled back here and then have it professionally sorted."...

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I have no idea of the circumstances and history and pricing of the car. Sometimes that works out okay and sometimes not so much. I'm working on a not so much car today.

Do you have a professional sorter picked out? I'm trying to ease up and fade away myself so I have no angle I'm trying to work. People working on Corvairs are getting hard to come by, I wish more people would get in the business.

[gregger59]

I would say this car is about as nice as they come. Calif. Corvairs closes from Saturday thru Mondays. Give him a call after 10 AM on Tuesday. He can tell you more about it and send you pictures too. Good luck in your hunt.
BTW, I just got my '62 Monza convert home from the paint shop today. It's beautiful & I am stoked. Can't wait to get going on the reassembly now. Its Butternut yellow, black interior, new white top ( converted from a manual to a power top.) Works great.

Thank you Doug, that's very kind. I will get in touch!

Love hearing about your convertible in yellow. Post a pic or two when you can! If I may be so bold ... about what is the "going rate" for a high quality paint job these days? (Let's assume no major panel fixes and a good amount of prep done by the owner.) Thanks again.

[gregger59]

Do you have a professional sorter picked out? I'm trying to ease up and fade away myself so I have no angle I'm trying to work. People working on Corvairs are getting hard to come by, I wish more people would get in the business.

My thinking is to ask the Chicagoland Enthusiasts folk who they would recommend.

Spoke to the current owner. He is 75+ and suffering some health issues. He is a collector of many toys and bought the car on a whim from an intermediary of the original owner in a small rural town. He felt it was in spectacular original condition, but when I noted the steering wheel had at one point been swapped for a more modern, rally type, he said "Oh, I would have no idea about that." Bottom line is, he's a very nice gentleman but not particularly informative, and even getting the VIN to me is an effort--one he in undertaking. So this one definitely requires a trip to determine what's-what! I will try to learn more.

[gregger59]

a beautiful '62 Spyder

BTW, am I wrong to fixate on the '64 model year? Are the advantages in the upgraded suspension and additional displacement+horsepower worth holding out for one? Opinions always welcomed, I'm a noobie. Thanks.

[Dennis66]

I think it's really more one's personal taste. '64 advantages extra spring on rear suspension (maybe anti sway bars - not sure exactly what years have those standard, but can be added), 64 has different air filter system, 64 has 164 CID. Personally, the 145 CID works for me. Earlier can have straps or cables added to the rear suspension, air filter easily changed over. I say go with the best deal for you. Dennis

[66vairguy]

BTW, am I wrong to fixate on the '64 model year? Are the advantages in the upgraded suspension and additional displacement+horsepower worth holding out for one? Opinions always welcomed, I'm a noobie. Thanks.

No you are not wrong to prefer the 64 model, BUT in spite of all the swing axle issues with the 60-63 cars, when driven NORMALLY they are not an issue. In extreme maneuvers there is no doubt the 64 suspension handles better and they do ride better in normal driving. If a pre 64 car does not have a front sway bar, then adding one is highly recommended to improve handling. Note some install the LM suspension subframe and linkage, but use the EM spindles to get a sway bar. Finding an original EM sway bar and hardware is more difficult.

Anyway ---- just my , but in the same condition, model, options, a 64 will usually sell for more. The only downside of the 64 (and early 65 Corvair) is the solid steering wheel shaft that in a severe accident WILL do damage to the driver. I recall Seth Emerson sells a kit to add semi-collapsible shaft (and allows you to use a new replacement steering box). Not as safe as modern collapsible steering columns, but far better than the solid shaft.

[jimbrandberg]

There was a void in Chicago when the Vair Shop closed. Someone must have stepped up since I don't seem to get so many calls from there but I don't know who it may be. I'd like to know so I can refer folks, I'm apparently too easy to find in a Google search.
Once again I would urge you to look at the end before simply wishing for the best in the beginning. Getting a good deal on something and dragging it home is the easy part.

[gregger59]

Sage advice, Jim. I have sent you a PM with a more detailed question, thanks.

[gregger59]

Thanks again for the advice. As it happens, the seller more or less pulled the rug out from under me, right in the middle of preparations to make the transaction, so the car is no longer available. Still in the hunt!