Corvair Forum

Scott V wrote:they arent a billet - they are a extrusion. at least they arent cast.

Tell them that....

LN Engineering Website wrote: Our NSC-plated, CNC billet, solid aluminum Nickies™ provide:
Significantly reduced head temperatures
Increased horsepower (dyno proven!)
Significantly reduced cylinder wear and increased ring life
Superior oiling (our NSC plating, like Nikasil™, is oleophilic i.e. oil-liking)
Tighter ring gaps and improved ring seal w/o need for gapless rings
Reduced friction and tighter skirt clearances
Improves efficiency of stock upright type 1 and type 3 pancake cooling systems
Cylinders can be re-honed or re-plated at a fraction of the original price
Reduced engine weight
Improved head sealing

miniman82 wrote:

Scott V wrote:they arent a billet - they are a extrusion. at least they arent cast.

Tell them that....

LN Engineering Website wrote: Our NSC-plated, CNC billet, solid aluminum Nickies™ provide:
-cut-

...........dont need to tell them anything since their site says "Our alloy, especially extruded for LN Engineering by Alcoa" ....................... "Each batch of our custom extrusion goes through intensive QC"

-Scott V.

And where does the extrusion come from? Not a casting...

Ok - I'm a dummy about this stuff . Cast is easy to figure out you -pour liquid metal in a mold and let it harden . A billet is a solid chunk that is machined to shape and an extrusion is forced thru a die like a pasta maker.

So is a billet made using the casting process ? Or is the billet made by extrusion ? Or How ?


And in the case of the cylinders how much or what difference would it make ?

UNSAFE wrote:Cast is easy to figure out, pour liquid metal in a mold and let it harden. A billet is a solid chunk that is machined to shape and an extrusion is forced thru a die like a pasta maker.

Correct. More or less.

is the billet made by extrusion?

Billet is just a colloquial term for bar stock. To make things confusing, a large diameter piece of bar stock (billet) which is extruded to a smaller size is an extrusion. But if it forms a new section of bar stock, there's nothing stopping you from calling it billet even though the process which created it was extrusion. You can't tell the difference looking at it on the shelf in any machine shop, it all looks the same.

And in the case of the cylinders how much or what difference would it make?

The difference is most likely in the cost of production. I suspect it's cheaper to buy an extrusion with a hole already in the center of it, vice drilling and machining a piece of round stock. Think they're expensive now? Add machine costs to that...

Either way, they are no different from each other metallurgically. Now if they began with a billet of forged aluminum they would have a stronger product still, but again cost was probably the determining factor. Let's remember what they are making here- one off cylinders for very expensive racing engines. They wanted to be able to reach those racing teams, but not be so expensive that a regular guy couldn't buy them either.

Here's the best way to understand it:

These cylinders started life as billet aluminum. They were then extruded to their rough shape: a round piece with a hole in it, and could be called extrusions or billet (since hollow billet also exists) at that point. Then the were cut to length, and their name changed again to a 'blank'. Then they were machined to their final shape, fins and all.

Tomato, tomAto. I choose to call them billet cylinders, that's what the company calls them. Want to call they something else? Fine, but they started life as a billet. Seems fair, no?

Nickies sold here for $1550 a set. http://www.corvairspecialties.com/cylinders.html

miniman82 wrote:
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Either way, they are no different from each other metallurgically.

there can be a metallurgical differance between a billet & a extrusion. the extrusion process changes the grain structure & material flow of the material. the soft 6xxx alloy is mostly used for extrusions the other *higher strength* alloys dont extrude well.

miniman82 wrote: Tomato, tomAto. I choose to call them billet cylinders, that's what the company calls them. Want to call they something else? Fine, but they started life as a billet. Seems fair, no?

the company also calls them extrusions - which is the correct way to say what it is. the cylinders started life as a billet & then changed form/material structure when pushed in a die to make a extrusion. they are machined from a extrusion - not from a billet.

seems fair? maybe fair to call it billet - but it isnt acccurate. i know you like to be accurate - thats why i mentioned this.

-Scott V.

Am-Iron wrote:Nickies sold here for $1550 a set. http://www.corvairspecialties.com/cylinders.html

pretty sure they are cast. not billet. not from a extrusion. also pretty sure they are cast in china - most of the stuff from them is from china.

-Scott V.

Scott V wrote:there can be a metallurgical differance between a billet & a extrusion. the extrusion process changes the grain structure & material flow of the material. the soft 6xxx alloy is mostly used for extrusions the other *higher strength* alloys dont extrude well.

Grain structure has nothing to do with the makup of the metal: if it was 6061 as a billet, it's 6061 as an extrusion.

the company also calls them extrusions - which is my way to say what it is.

Fix that for you. The company calls it a billet cylinder in the adverts, that's what I call them. Want to split hairs? Call them.

seems fair? maybe fair to call it billet - but it isnt acccurate. i know you like to be accurate - thats why i mentioned this.

I am being accurate- the site calls them billet, therefore they are.

miniman82 wrote:

Scott V wrote:there can be a metallurgical differance between a billet & a extrusion. the extrusion process changes the grain structure & material flow of the material. the soft 6xxx alloy is mostly used for extrusions the other *higher strength* alloys dont extrude well.

Grain structure has nothing to do with the makup of the metal: if it was 6061 as a billet, it's 6061 as an extrusion.

grain structure has nothing to do w/the makup (sic) of the metal? wow - you hit on a new discovery in material sciences. lol. i didnt say that the makeup of the material was different between a billet & a extrusion i said that there can be a metallurgical differance between a billet & a extrusion. this isnt opinion - its fact.

miniman82 wrote: Fix that for you. The company calls it a billet cylinder in the adverts, that's what I call them. Want to split hairs? Call them.

thx - but you dont need to fix what is correct. their adverts can say what they want - its only advertising - & we all know all ads are 100% correct. lol. their tech info say its a extrusion.

i called them. spoke w/steve. he said that the technically correct way to describe it as a extrusion. they get the material as a extrusion - that is what they start with. they dont start w/a billet. pushing the billet through the extrusion die makes it a extrusion - it is no longer a billet. they use *billet* in the ads cuz the general public doesnt really know/understand what a extrusion is - case in point here. they explain about the extrusion w/the tech info on the site.

i dont see why this is a problem? LN eng. doesnt start w/a billet - they start w/a extrusion - its a simple as that. if you want to say that nickies start as a billet - great - follow their ad info. & join the general public that doesnt understand what a extrusion is. if you want to be technically correct - follow LN eng. tech info. & call it what it is - a extrusion.

-Scott V.

Am-Iron wrote:Nickies sold here for $1550 a set. http://www.corvairspecialties.com/cylinders.html

These are not Nickies, BTW. I emailed LN, here's what they said:

Hello Nick,

These are not our products. We do offer custom Corvair Nickies which are
the same line as our Porsche ones (billet aluminum, plating, etc.). Thank
you for making us aware of this trademark infringement.

Buyer beware.

UNSAFE wrote:

If you want true big bore power, contact LN Engineering

WOW -- 3 grand for pistons and jugs and that's just for a set of 4

Relative to the attachment: Now there's a "stroker"!!

UNSAFE wrote:As far as I know 94mm is the largest cylinder that will fit.

Beyond that you could use a stroker crank for even more displacement.

I've been toying with the idea of a stroked big bore for about 3.6 liters.

Tell me more!!

Not a lot to tell really, Chevy already stroked the 145ci engine to 164ci. It can be taken farther, but not without a lot of very expensive hard parts and specialized machine work. If you take the top off a 164, you'll see just how close the rod caps come to the bottom of the opposing side piston. There just plain isn't a lot of room for more stroke in the case. Hence, 'cheating' is the best option for more power. lol

miniman82 wrote:Not a lot to tell really, Chevy already stroked the 145ci engine to 164ci. It can be taken farther, but not without a lot of very expensive hard parts and specialized machine work. If you take the top off a 164, you'll see just how close the rod caps come to the bottom of the opposing side piston. There just plain isn't a lot of room for more stroke in the case. Hence, 'cheating' is the best option for more power. lol

It would appear that "something" to "blow in more air" is the most cost effective answer in the long run (spelled - everyday fun - just as long a you upgrade pistons, rods etc. (Sure wish someone would design a good set of watercooled heads, ala Porsche), so you could properly pressurize it!!

UNSAFE wrote:As far as I know 94mm is the largest cylinder that will fit.

Beyond that you could use a stroker crank for even more displacement.

I've been toying with the idea of a stroked big bore for about 3.6 liters.

Hi I'm wanting to know where you're stroked crank is from. Where can I get it?

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