Help needed with Judson Supercharger

[SethThomas]

The vacuum port on the Holley carb is plugged. There are 3 ports on the supercharger base/bracket. I have Vacuum advance on the lowest one by the intake. The oil drip is in the rear of the base, and on the same level as the 3rd port on the side between the Carb and supercharger (I figure the oil could have gone to either, they both tap into the same chamber)

The vacuum advance needs a ported vacuum source. The instructions have it hooked to the carb with a short piece of brass or copper tubing. The oiler is the only thing that should be hooked to the ports in the base. I would just keep the vacuum advance unhooked for now. It is there to improve economy while cruising, turbo cars do not use one.

I will try and look at my two Judson carbs and see if they have the tubing attached.

Do you know how much pressure your fuel pump is putting out? It could be overpowering the needle and seat.

Removing the belt drops allows the RPM down about 250 RPM in both drive and neutral. It still bellows black smoke in neutral.

I went ahead and plugged the advance.

The oiler is about 3 seconds per drop.

Yes the choke tube is tapped into the passenger manifold.

I have no Idea on my pump's output. It is a newly rebuilt original pump (only like 150 miles on it).

Adjusting the choke minutely send the RPM soaring or plummeting, and it is really slow to return to where it was (if at all). I'll see if I can loosen this up.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much I will want to put into this. I will keep fiddling for a little while. I'd like to be able to confidently drive it a few times. The build has been a fun experiment, but the noise is deafening. I have to wear earmuffs to be around the thing, and I'm fairly certain I would not be able to live with the noise long term. I can see why these are so uncommon.

[SpyderMan]

They take 50-60 miles to break in a quiet down when new or new veins are installed. What was the story on the kit when you got it? Had it been run before? I am sending you a PM so maybe we can chat on the phone.

Do you have a manifold pressure gauge on engine? I would be interested to hear what it is doing during all of this.

If we ignore the idle in neutral have you tried to drive it now that it will go in gear?

[KenHenry]

That carb has a vacuum operated power valve that screws in from the bottom. If the diaphragm ruptures or the wrong seal is used, it will go super rich. Good luck! Ken

[SethThomas]

That carb has a vacuum operated power valve that screws in from the bottom. If the diaphragm ruptures or the wrong seal is used, it will go super rich. Good luck! Ken

This seems to have been the problem. I removed the valve and cleaned the plastic washer. Then tightened it as much as I could, and the smoke cleared up.

Took it for its first drive. Without a tachometer on the automatic cars, its hard to give accurate info to you all. Always wished it had one. Maybe someday I will find one that fits in the clock space.

There is a significant boost at about 40 MPH on the flat road. About 40 is also where the super gets less noisy. Accelerating up hill is much easier too. I wasn't brave enough to put it on the highway without a friend as backup.

I needed to adjust the throttle a little more, It bogged down when coming to a stop after accelerating. I think these type of carbs originally would have had dashpots for automatic cars.

It now idles about 1400 in Neutral and 820 in drive. Timing set at 20. I can probably fine tune all this. Mixture seems really good though.

After driving it the oiler is foaming a little. I am not sure what needs to be done (if anything) about this.

Another observation I had was the super creates a ton of cold condensation on the bottom of the carb and bracket it's on. It may be advisable to paint or heavily oil the carb base as the rust starts to show quickly.

I also noticed I have a little exhaust leak judging by the black streak on my choke tube sleeve.

[SpyderMan]

Kevin, I am really excited to hear your impressions after more driving and tuning. Well done.

[KenHenry]

Awesome!! Sounds like good progress

[SpyderMan]

I needed to adjust the throttle a little more, It bogged down when coming to a stop after accelerating. I think these type of carbs originally would have had dashpots for automatic cars.

Yes, I pulled the two Judson carbs out and one has a dashpot and bracket. In the Holly 2110 manual it mentions that when equipped on automatic cars the dashpot is used. I will grab a picture as it should be easy to fabricate.

One last longterm thing, I noticed your fuel filter in the engine compartment. Myself and others had had lousy luck with that glass filter, they tend to leak or get broken pretty easily. At some point I would move it to just before the it enters the engine compartment in the drivers side rear wheel well. The metal Wix filters are the most robust even though you can't see what is going on inside. That glass filter has caused more than a few fires over the years.

[kmart356]

...snipped... You may need to do something different for timing control (like going to programmable) or use a Safegard for boost retard, ...snipped...

Seth, Good to see you got the fueling sorted out! I will offer up some observations on timing that now might apply as you start getting into the "boost".

The 1110319 distributor baseline curves are shown in the first graph. '66 110 PG, '66 110PG w_AC, Seth's timing (20* base).
Yes indeed when you set initial timing to 24* as per factory specs for AC, the max advance streaks to 44* at 4800rpm which could cause issues with knock as you know.
.

.
The custom timing curves shown in this next graph can be achieved using the 0319 distributor (with some clever modifications). The blue curve could be obtained by setting base timing to 24* and limiting the mechanical advance to 10* total (this is similar but not exactly the shape of the 140hp curve). The black dashed curve also has base timing set to 24* but the mechanical advance is delayed until 2800rpm - delaying the advance start rpm is a bit more difficult with springs/weights. This black curve looks similar to the factory turbo curves that have that advance start at higher RPMs.

None of these timing curves address any boost retard you may need.
.

.

Of course there are other distributors that could be used with or without additional mods. Programmable timing modules are also available which allow for fine tuning the timing.

[flat_six]

This is a fun post to follow.

It's always been my understanding that these Judson units were designed to go on the 145 ci Corvair with MT.

Kudos for venturing out into unknown territory. Will be interesting to see how the boost goes at high engine speeds and if the super can keep up on this 164 ci engine!

Mike

[SethThomas]

Got a lot more time under the belt. The power feels good passing at about 70. I can't really comment if this would be more or less than the standard 4 carb 140 setup.

I haven't been able to remove the problem with it wanting to stall after coming to a stop from acceleration. I suspect a dashpot will be necessary. Feathering the gas pedal has kept me from ever stalling outright. I don't particularly like driving like Michael Shumaker, but I'm getting more used to it

Several days of cold starts have shown an issue with fuel delivery. Specifically this floods just about every cold start. Maybe due to the significant throttle adjustment needed to keep this running well. Could be too much pump pressure. It might benefit from electronic fuel delivery. Flooding was catastrophic the last time. I had to disassemble and dump what felt like 1 gallon of gas from the super assembly.

Regardless, this isn't going anywhere until I replace my starter now.

[guthrie1068]

Any news? I'm curious to hear how it is running!

[66vairguy]

Got a lot more time under the belt. The power feels good passing at about 70. I can't really comment if this would be more or less than the standard 4 carb 140 setup.

It wouldn't matter to me if it was faster or slower. As long as it is adequate. It is a real show piece and will be fun to show at the cars and coffee meets. Looking forward to you getting it sorted.

[SethThomas]

After I had replaced the starter, I ended up having to rebuild the alternator. The housing had cracked at some point, and I only noticed as I was messing with my belts.

After a few more drives, I became too annoyed with the fuel delivery situation. A great part of this kit is how easy it is to install, and uninstall. It was just too uncooperative.

I will revisit this once I have put together an electric fuel pump sometime next spring.