1965 4-Speed Detent Spring

[Mack411]

O.K. guys, I need a little help and advice. I changed the gear lube in my 1965 Turbo Convertible today. Yes, I used GL-4! In the drain pan I found a small spring and after having looked at the print in the book, it seems that it can only be a detent spring. Now here is the question. Can I remove the cap on 1-2, or 3-4 with the transmission in the car. If yes, can the ball and spring be replaced while the trans is in the car. A little nervous about this, but the car has always shifted fine and I don't think it just chose today to fall out! Any assistance appreciated!

Mack

[cad-kid]

Post a photo of the spring you found. Personally if it shifts fine I would leave it alone.

[Mack411]

Checked another forum and figured out what I did wrong. The 4-speed trans doesn't have a drain plug. What I did was drop out the reverse detent spring and ball when I removed what I thought was a drain plug. Found them both in the drain pan and will replace them tomorrow. Obviously, I didn't do enough research! Live and learn!

Mack

[66vairguy]

Thanks for posting your "oops!". It will keep other from doing the same.

[MCataldo]

I did the same thing. Although the 65 service manual states there are and shows drain plugs for the transmission and final drive, neither in my car has them. I can't confirm if the transmission and final drive are original to the car, but they are the correct year (65). I got the detent ball and spring back in without a problem, but pumping oil out of the cases is not easy or particularly efficient.

[66vairguy]

One of the reasons the transaxle lube is rarely changed (which leads to expensive repairs) is because there is no drain. Of course there are a number of vehicles with no drains on transmissions and axles.

The fact is it is fairly easy and fast to pump out a transaxle with some inexpensive parts. Thanks to sink drains plugging up a number of companies sell little pumps that run off a simple electric hand drill to empty a sink of water, oil, and grease. With a little creativity at the hardward store you can use a pump, drill, some garden hose, clamps, vinyl tubing to make a rig that will pump all the gear oil out of a transaxle in under a minute!!! I've done it a few times - easy peazy!!

See one pump from Home Depot http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-300 ... lsrc=aw.ds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[larry]

First I'm new to corvairs and this forum.
But I'm confused, about "no drain plugs."

I'm restoring a 64 and transmission was locked in neutral. Removed what I assumed was drain plug. Oil with water mix came out (milky colored oil). About a quart. I guess. Then removed side plate. Got neutral unlocked. But!!

Apparently this was not a drain but a detent cover. Also had to remove a bolt like thing to remove what I thought was a drain plug. While still dripping, a spring fell out. No ball. Reached into the "drain" and out came a ball and second spring. I don't know where the first spring fell from. Just heard it and found it in drain pain.

How and where do these go back in?
I'm not sure if ball or spring go back in first. I think the spring first. But I don't remember for sure the ball and spring order.

[larry]

Looking at Shop Manual pictures and Clark's catalog pictures, it appears the detent ball goes in first, on '64 4-speed.

But it also appears the first spring (that just dropped out) should have also had a ball with it.

This transmission (and engine) were not in the car when I bought it. And the transmission was dry and not attached to the differential. I attached the transmission and added lub. before I knew the shifting was locked in neutral. Once all back in the car and running the neutral lock problem was apparent.

Shop manual is very vague on detent(s). Apparently there are 3 of these, but not well located. Also appears before me, someone was messing with this also...

Is there any other technical info on these detents and their location?

[bbodie52]

There are many good illustrations and details in the attached Corvair - Overhauling the 1961 4-speed Transmission. Basically the same as the 1965 unit.

[illinicorsa]

The problem in extracting the transmission oil in my 1966 4 speed (no drain plugs) is I can't get the suction tube (put into the fill hole) at all deep into the case even tho I've tried a small diameter (1/4") tube. Any suggestions?

Steve
'66 Corsa

[bbodie52]

Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:56 pm

To completely change the rear end/trans oil is impossible without transaxle removal as there is no drain plug. You could do a partial change by removing the transmission side cover (new gasket likely needed) and sucking as much fluid as possible out of there as well as trying to suck from putting your tube down the fill hole in the differential. You might also be able to fiddle the top cover off the diff with it in the car to allow better suction tube access (There is marginally enough space on a 65-69 car to remove the cover this way,but I have not tried this on an early model).

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=130


Part number C4429: GASKET-61-65 4SPD SIDE COVER

Weight: 0 lbs 6 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 130(1)
Price:
1 - 9 $ 4.95



http://www.corvair1.com/gaskets-seals/1 ... 3?cPath=35
1961-65 Standard 4 Sp Transmission Side cover Gasket, #RGS23
$3.07


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=131


Part number C4405: GASKET-66-69 3 & 4 SPD SIDE COVER

Weight: 0 lbs 6 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 132(66)
Price: $ 3.30



http://www.corvair1.com/gaskets-seals/1 ... 1?cPath=35
1966-69 Trans. 3&4 sp. saginaw side cover gasket,#RGS21
$3.65






http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=124

Part number C2207: DIFFERENTIAL COVER GASKET-ORIGINAL

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 124(23)
Price: $ 4.50

Part number C6020 (Other): THICK DIFFER COVER GASKET(23)

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 124(23)
Price:
1 - 9 $ 5.10
10+ $ 4.60




http://www.corvair1.com/gaskets-seals/1 ... 3?cPath=29
1960-69 differential top cover gasket, RDP03
$3.55

I've read that GL-5 fluid is no good for Brass components in the transmission. GL-4 fluid is the way to go. Stay away from anything that says GL-5

Gear oil is a lubricant made specifically for transmissions, transfer cases, and differentials in automobiles, trucks, and other machinery. It is of a higher viscosity to better protect the gears and usually is associated with a strong sulfur smell. The high viscosity ensures transfer of lubricant throughout the gear train. This is necessary since the devices needing this heavy oil do not have pumps for transferring the oil with only a portion of the lowermost gears bathed in an oil sump. This heavy oil can create viscous drag leading to inefficiencies in vehicle operation. Some modern automatic transaxles (integrated transmission and differential) do not use a heavy oil at all but lubricate with the lower viscosity hydraulic fluid, which is available at pressure within the automatic transmission.
Most lubricants for manual gearboxes and differentials are hypoid gear oils. These contain extreme pressure (EP) additives and antiwear additives to cope with the sliding action of hypoid bevel gears.
EP additives which contain phosphorous/sulfurous compounds are corrosive to yellow metals such as the copper and/or brass used in bushings and synchronizers; the GL1 class of gear oils does not contain any EP additives and thus finds use in applications which contain parts made of yellow metals.
GL-5 is not necessarily backward-compatible in synchro-mesh transmissions which are designed for a GL-4 oil: GL-5 has a lower coefficient of friction due to the higher concentration of EP additives over GL-4, and thus synchros can not engage as effectively. Also, transmissions which explicitly call for GL-4 oil may have been designed around this lower concentration of EP additives and thus may contain yellow metal parts which GL-5 will corrode

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

Question:
Clarify Comments on Use of GL-5 vs. GL-4 Gear Oil
Concerning the GL-5 gear oil, on your website you state the following: "Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant LS 75W-90 can also be used in rear axles where API Service GL-4 lubricant is recommended." However, you also say in this "Ask Mobil" section that: "Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Oil is recommended for all applications where a GL-5 lubricant is specified. GL-5 type lubricants, which have a higher level of additive chemistry, can be corrosive to yellow metals such as copper, brass, etc., and in these applications a GL-4 product is usually specified." Can you clarify this disconnect here? Thank you.
-- John Goetz, Newport News, VA

Answer:
There are transmission applications that recommend API GL-4 type products where we would not recommend using an API GL-5 fluid because transmissions typically have components made from “yellow” metals. However real axles where GL-4 fluids are recommended do not have “yellow” metal components. As a result, the application of an API GL-5 fluid is acceptable.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... r_Oil.aspx

Some Corvair transmissions and differentials do not have a drain plug. A suction gun like the one below (that I found on Amazon.com) is useful for refilling the transaxle.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648756 ... uction+gun


Powerbuilt 648756 Suction Gun

Price: $11.60

Product Features

• For filling and draining transmissions, differentials, gear cases, etc
• Knurled barrel for non-slip grip
• One piece die cast head minimizes leakage
• Includes 12 inch flexible delivery tube
• Use with any non-corrosive lubricant

Technical Details
Brand: Powerbuilt
Item Weight: 1.9 pounds
Product Dimensions: 14.9 x 3.3 x 2.4 inches
Item model number: 648756
Manufacturer Part Number: 648756

OTHER OPTIONS ON AMAZON.COM...

http://www.amazon.com/Lumax-LX-1185-Bla ... sim_auto_2
Lumax LX-1185 Black 18 oz. Suction Gun with 12" Vinyl Hose $12.96


http://www.amazon.com/Plews-Tools-30-11 ... uction+gun
Plews Tools 30-118 Suction Gun $13.77