Reared binding after 3spd to 4spd swap

[Racerdoc]

I am back in the garage and working on finally solving this wheel lock underload problem.

Still at a loss, I was planning on disconnecting the rear strut rod from the transaxle to see if that has any affect. Can I roll the car without the rods connected or will that cause damage to other components. I don't plan on driving it that way just trying to see if this affects the transaxle at all.

What do you guys think?

[bbodie52]

Getting my 66 Monza on the road....

Power pack is back in (all seals re-done), engine runs fine, new exhaust sounds great, brakes are bled, new bushings in the rear, new springs and shocks in the rear, swapped out the factory 3spd with a 4spd, new clutch......

Backed out of the garage, rolled off the driveway and onto the street, put it in 1st...... and no go (E-brake not connected yet). Tried all the gears., no grinding, clunking sounded smooth... feels like its binding somewhere..... kept trying to rock it loose till I smelled clutch.....

Just a wild thought... Your original car and transaxle was a 1966 3-speed unit. As far as I can tell you installed a 1965 4-speed transaxle. Is there any chance you used the wrong input shaft between the clutch and the new transaxle? Both use 14 spline shafts, but the original 1966 3-speed transmission shaft was 24-3/8" in length, while the new 1965 4-speed transaxle uses an input shaft that is a little shorter — 23-1/4". If you accidentally inserted the input shaft from the 1966 transaxle, it would be 1-1/8" too long. I'm not sure if that would have been noticeable as you were tightening the transaxle to the engine clutch housing, or if it would have even been possible to fully mate the clutch housing to the differential under such circumstances.

[cad-kid]

You're posting the same question twice - it's confusing

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[Racerdoc]

cad-kid

Sorry about the double post, my bad.

[Racerdoc]

.

[Racerdoc]

bbodie52

I did not realize that the shafts are a different length, I checked the shaft in my 66 3spd that is on one of my work tables... its 24 3/8. Looks like thats not the problem, but that was a nice bit of detective work..thanks

Do you think that since I can start the car and engage all the gears and spin the wheels when car is on jack stands but not when is on the ground that my problem is in the transaxle?

[64powerglide]

Do both wheels rotate when in a forward gear or just one? Can you have someone stop either wheel when it's at idle in gear?
Just wondering if there is something inside a brake drum. I had a 65 Triumph Spitfire that sat one winter with a leaking wheel cylinder & it had bonded brake shoes & when I drove it out of the garage one of the shoes had came apart from being soaked with fluid & a broken piece of shoe was binding at the bottom of the drum & stopped the car from moving. Have you pulled both drums to see if everything is O.K.? If all four wheels turn freely when on jackstands it looks like your going to drop the drive train.

[azdave]

Can you confirm if the car rolls freely forward while all is off, gear in neutral? I've had many Corvairs that would refuse to roll forward due to self-energizing brake shoes locking up. They would back up all day long but only go forward about a couple of inched. I don't think you have mention if the cars rolls forward when simply pushed.

[Racerdoc]

Rear brakes have been refreshed, e cable is disconnected, car does not roll forward in neutral after it binds up and yes it can roll in reverse without binding.

I have considered rotating the seats and driving around backwards.... would be less confusing to people when I pop the hood to show them the engine:)

Hm brakes locking up when off the jack stands? I will disconnect the brakes over the weekend and see what happens.

Thanks

[66CorsaConv]

If the parking brake cables got pulled forward and stuck forward as did my 64 convertible, it will roll backwards and bind badly forward. I had to pull the drums and shoes and soak the rusted dirty flex cables from the backing plates to the ends where 1/8" cable comes out.It took a couple weeks and I was 14 at the time.

Lots of penetrating oil and pulling forward from under floor end and pulling back from brake shoe end until free. There is a spring on the cable inside the drum. The cable needs to move free.

So Can you pull that 1/8" cable on each side out about 1/4" AND have it return by itself. You should hear some noise of the primary brake shoe moving inside the drum.
If both of those heavy flex cables are NOT free, the parking brake will bind.

The brake shoes are asymetrical by design with a primary and secondary shoe. The primary shoe in the rear drags on the drum first, then a cam like lever action drives the secondary to add to the stopping friction force. Backwards the Dual Servo design is not as effective.

[azdave]

Rear brakes have been refreshed, e cable is disconnected, car does not roll forward in neutral after it binds up and yes it can roll in reverse with binding.

Re-read your reply above. You are saying that it binds in both forward and reverse??
I'll assume this is a typo and that is does roll backward without binding.

I still think it sounds like the brake shoes are self-energizing. The only way to know for sure is to just pull the rear drums off temporarily and roll it back and forth (assuming you have a fairly flat driveway). You will have no brakes of course for this test. Pushing the brake pedal might pop out the wheel cylinder pistons so don't touch the brakes during this test!

[Racerdoc]

azdave

I corrected my typo, car does roll in reverse withOUT binding.... Thanks

I did not know that the disconnected break cable could cause the e brake to engage.... But if so why can I spin the wheels by hand and by shifting through the gears with engine turning the wheels when I have the car up on jacks?

Either way I am going to disconnect the brakes and see how she rolls and yes no depressing the brake pedal, I have squeezed a brake cylinder piston out in the past.....

[66CorsaConv]

So wheels spin free up on jack stands both directions? But not on ground?

[Racerdoc]

Correct, spins freely when up on jacks in both directions with me rolling the posi-rear end by hand or starting the car and running through all 4 forward gears and reverse. When off the jacks can be driven or rolled backwards, can not be driven or rolled forward. I literally have to push it back into the garage with my other car and both rear wheels stay locked and leave marks on the driveway....

[bbodie52]

...can not be driven or rolled forward. I literally have to push it back into the garage with my other car and both rear wheels stay locked and leave marks on the driveway...

If it is not the rear brakes, I cannot imagine a bearing problem that would do that. Possibly a broken tooth or spider gear inside the differential that is jamming forward rotation, but releases the gears when backed up? This is a replacement 1965 differential and has not been used successfully on the road yet. Its history is unknown. But why does it permit forward rotation when up in the air and the wheels are not under load???

When both wheels are locked and leave marks on the driveway when the car is forced forward with another vehicle, what sequence of events releases the wheels to turn again?

[64powerglide]

Put the jack stands on the rear suspension & see if you can still turn the wheels.