Sheet metal....FYI

[tommy44432]

In the process of repainting my '63 Convertible I discovered some rust issues on both rear quarters behind the doors so decided to replace them with new panels ordered from Clark's. Very disappointed in the quality. I've replaced sheet metal on several cars I've restored with little to no issues with fit or quality. The Clark's sheet metal looked good out of the box but neither side would fit without some serious massaging. Turns out both panels were "sprung" and I discovered when I cut the bottom 3 inches off the panel where the pinch weld would be the panels fit almost perfect. The metal I removed would bend as I cut it off indicating to me the panels were under stress. With some tweaking I was able to weld the cut off panel onto the passenger side but had to make the bottom part of the driver's side with some sheet metal and a metal break I have. If this had been the only collector car sheet metal I'd ever dealt with I'd just chalk it up to "that's the way it is" with old cars and what I assume to be Asian suppliers but since this is not the first sheet metal/collector car I've done I can't do that. I will give the benefit of the doubt to Clark's and maybe I got some bad panels but thought I'd pass the information I learned onto others just in case. But even with that benefit of doubt I will now be very leery about ordering any more metal from this supplier.

[bbodie52]

Considering the very positive reputation Clark's has established with most of their products, including reproductions and the interior carpeting and upholstery items they fabricate, it seems a shame to apparently hear repeatedly about poor quality body panels for Corvairs. Since body rot and decay has increasingly become more of an issue for Corvair owners, I would hope that better long-term solutions for body restoration and repair panels might be in the works at Clark's. An explanation from Clark's might be helpful. I understand that they often run into supplier problems, but if this is so with the body panels they sell I would hope for better communication between Clark's and their customers to possibly resolve these issues — or at least to reveal to the customer base the nature of problems that Clark's is encountering. These body components are, after all, becoming an increasingly critical item!

Clark's has a number of videos that appear to show extensive attention to reproduction quality control. I have viewed them all. The video entitled CLARK'S CORVAIR PARTS - REPRO PARTS - Part TWO discusses body panels and trim extensively. After viewing these videos, it is surprising to hear of the body panel problems you experienced.

CLARK'S CORVAIR PARTS VIDEO
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=6004

I would hope that each customer, like yourself, who runs into quality issues with body panels provided by Clark's will provide Clark's with detailed feedback regarding these problems. Complaining on the Corvair Forum might inform Corvair owners, but if Clark's Corvair Parts never receives formal complaints and negative feedback from its customer base, they will not be under pressure to take corrective measures. With more than 40 years of successful business practices behind them, I would think that Clark's would be anxious to inform consumers and to possibly take corrective actions to improve quality in this critical area.

Did you discuss your impressions and problems with Clark's in writing or on the phone? If so, did you hear back from them?

[vairygood]

I've bought a lot from Clarks and had no problem,I hope that you addressed this problem with them prior to posting here and what was their response?
Buster

[tommy44432]

I did inform Clark's about my problems and as of today have had no response from them. My post was both a complaint and to inform others that if they encountered a problem similar to mine how I solved my issues. I too agree that Clark's needs to address this issue or else quit selling the parts.

[rv6aaviator]

I recently installed new forward sections of both rear quarters on my 63 convertible spyder and did not have any major problems. Reproduction parts are never an exact fit. The parts that come from Clark's are very good quality and give you a tremendous head start in my opinion. They will require some additional fabrication and finesse. It is a skill level 3 job for sure and not any work to be taken on by the weekend warrior. I had about 2 days of full time work into each side before they were ready for primer and I have lots of experience in metal work. Take your time, be patient, think twice, measure 10 times and cut once. Be patient and you will be rewarded with a new panel that nobody will ever be able to tell was replaced.

[terribleted]

The early Clark's early Corvair patch panels I received and installed about 6 months ago were mediocre compared to some of their other panels (The late front fender lower patches are excellent for example....up there with the best I have seen regardless of car type as I have worked on many makes). The curve is not exact on any of the 4 pieces. Details are not as sharp and defined as factory. Edges particularly on the front 1/4 panel sections at the door opening are not well defined. Usable yes. Better than hand forming? Maybe it depends on how much you need to replace and your skill at such things. Assuming at least a moderate skill level in weld in fabrication I would say if you need to replace much of the wheel opening detail with the patch then it is likely easier than hand forming. Mostly the panels can be carefully reshaped and massaged to give a pretty good over all fit.

To use the patches I received all the way into the door opening (to where the factory outer 1/4 panel ends) required 2 things:

First the flange that will sit inside the door opening at the bottom of the post was about 1-1.5 inches wide when the factory 1/4 is more like 3/8 wide in this area. The patch was also not even along the edge (better to have more than not enough I guess) not a big deal really. the forming of the sheet metal through this curve is a little lumpy.

Second, the corner where the 1/4 panel skin turns in onto the post by the rear and lower corner of the door is around 90 degrees and the edge is nearly square from the factory. The patch panels edge here is more like pencil round, OK thats a bit of an exaggeration, but quite round. The presented a challenge on the car I was repairing. On one side I was able to retain the entire factory flange, replacing only the outer face welding roughly 1/4 away from the door opening. The car was rust free in this area. On the other side the original was not as good so I ended up using the patch piece including the flange, but, I had to cut the flange off the patch and weld them into the car as 2 pieces so I could weld the door opening edge and grind it square. Here are a few photos from that job.

Note that the patch is already sliced at the front and top at the corner to reshape the curve some. Imagine how round the top edge of this corner would be if the slice was not there....like I said pretty round

After slicing away the flange and fully welding the opening edge.

Ground to shape.

Rear of L 1/4 patch into wheel opening fit up with some massaging. The shape and definition around the wheel opening was a little weak and a hair wide across the flat in the center.

[tommy44432]

As I stated this was not my first restoration. I did state that I have done others but this is my first Corvair. None of the other sheet metal I had to replace on my other restorations required a fraction of the work to install. One response stated it took him TWO days to install EACH side and yet people still come up with excuses which seem to forgive lousy sheet metal for which we paid a lot of money for. I did receive a response from Clark's which basically said sorry about your luck. Not exactly the response I was expecting from a company that seems to have such loyal followers and prides itself on customer satisfaction. I am not satisfied.

[terribleted]

Yeah there is not a lot they can do until and if they want to shell out a bunch of cash to get a better panel tooled and produced, a large undertaking that might not pay for itself. I suggested they perhaps grade the panels in their catalog like some other suppliers have done. Like grade 10 for perfect Factory new, 9 perfect reproduction, down to 5 mediocre, 3 marginal, anything under is pure trash:) I would call these panels maybe a 4 based on the multitude of repro panels I have seen. For them to not sell them would be bad for hobbyists as there is no other better choice currently on the market that I am aware of (besides good used sections). These are not great but better than nothing in some cases.

Some repro panels I have gotten in and put against the car and said Hmmmm these might fit something but not this car:( I have had a number of times that the new replacement patch panels went in the trash or were returned rather than becoming part of the car.

LOL one time we got a repro R door for a 65 Mustang from a major national supplier and it was a trapezoid rather than a rectangle. Took it back and compared to other doors and they were all trapezoids. These were off square by 3/4 of an inch (door flush to the rocker panel leaving 3/4+" gap and top rear to 1/4 panel and 3/4"lower front edge to fender). Lucky the original door really only needed front lower outer corner of the skin and the area surrounding the door handle (a tree branch had fallen on the door handle and destroyed the panel around it). We bought a door skin instead. It was the same skin as on the whole doors. It was also a trapezoid:) We cut 2 pieces out of these and since we were only using short sections vertically these pieces could be fit with minimal edge build up to match the existing door edges. Luckily this place had a local warehouse. Shipping bad doors back and forth would get expensive.

[tommy44432]

@ terribleted....I've read numerous comment both from people that said they had no problems with Clark's panels and those that said they had. It would seem to me that it's running about 50/50 meaning you stand an even chance of getting good panels. And Clark's response to me was "the tooling is old and our supplier hates it when we return panels" which indicates to me they know there is a problem with this item. I would have liked to have seen some sort of disclaimer telling me there are issues with the panels so I could have been prepared. I consulted a professional body man about the panels in question and he stated in his 38 years of repairing/restoring cars he'd never encountered panels as bad as Clark's. On the other, as you stated, they are better than nothing. But to me that's a poor justification for selling an inferior product for which we pay good money for. I will still use Clark's as a supplier since my options are limited but I will always feel my trust in them has been betrayed.

[notched]

I have used multiple repro panels from Clark's and some fit better than others. But I have restored other vehicles such as 73-87 Chevy trucks that had bad repros. It is the chance you take when you are not using an NOS panel. Obviously the price and availability are significantly different so I suppose your only option is to search for NOS.

[terribleted]

@ terribleted....I've read numerous comment both from people that said they had no problems with Clark's panels and those that said they had. It would seem to me that it's running about 50/50 meaning you stand an even chance of getting good panels. And Clark's response to me was "the tooling is old and our supplier hates it when we return panels" which indicates to me they know there is a problem with this item. I would have liked to have seen some sort of disclaimer telling me there are issues with the panels so I could have been prepared. I consulted a professional body man about the panels in question and he stated in his 38 years of repairing/restoring cars he'd never encountered panels as bad as Clark's. On the other, as you stated, they are better than nothing. But to me that's a poor justification for selling an inferior product for which we pay good money for. I will still use Clark's as a supplier since my options are limited but I will always feel my trust in them has been betrayed.

I agree they should have grading or a notification of quality in the catalog if the panel is inferior (Like the early lower front 1/4 panel and rear of fender steel pieces are). Anyone that has installed these particular panels recently (lower rear fender and lower front 1/4 steel patch panels for earlys) that says they had no problems with them are either not very particular, blind, did not use any of the more detailed parts of the panel, or are not talking about the same panels.

HOLY CRAP!! I just looked at the price sheet and saw what Clark's charges for these particular panels. I am a big fan of Clark's and what they have done for Corvairs and generally find their pricing fair and quality excellent or as stated, however, these panels are severely over priced considering their quality. I did not purchase the ones I installed recently ( I had for a car a very long time ago, and they were no where near this price level) and assumed they were in the $50-75ea range tops like most cheap poorly stamped patch panels, not $100-168 per panel. If I received these expecting a nice panel at these prices I would be very pissed off as well. I also would have fussed at them harder recently when I mentioned the poor fit to them if I had known the pricing.

[tommy44432]

I have used multiple repro panels from Clark's and some fit better than others. But I have restored other vehicles such as 73-87 Chevy trucks that had bad repros. It is the chance you take when you are not using an NOS panel. Obviously the price and availability are significantly different so I suppose your only option is to search for NOS.

I disagree with your statement "it's a chance you take". If a business is in business to sell things they owe you the best item they can provide or tell you "these panels may or may not fit as you expect". Of course if they did that they wouldn't be in business for long. From my correspondence with Clark's I have come to the conclusion they know there is a problem with their supplier and the panels yet they still sell them with no disclaimer. The problem with many businesses is quality isn't a priority anymore and customers are willing to accept this attitude because it's better than nothing. Really? I am not one of them. The tooling for the panels in question is old and worn by Clark's own admission so I'm assuming the tooling is paid for. Yet prices continue to go up. I bought an entire rear quarter (door to tail lights) for a '67 Chevy ll for 150 bucks from Lutty's Chevys in Cheswick, Pa. while the half quarter from Clark's was 168 bucks. The Nova quarter required NO modification whatsoever and came within 1/4 of an inch with all pinchwelds and inner fender metal. Most welding was done by squeezing the metal together with vice grips or simply pushing the parts together with my hands. That's quality.