The infamous EDIS conversion

[keitho64]

Nick

It has been a long time but I will be 'released' from the east coast soon and back in Chicago. I still have memories of the ride in your car. I FINALLY ordered the Megajolt ECU and will be installing the EDIS in the 64 Corvair in the next couple of weeks. I have all your write ups and already have a few potential ignition maps laid out to test. Thanks again for sharing all the information.

Did you get all the body and paint work done on the Corvair yet?

Keith

[miniman82]

Hey, that's great!

No, not done yet. I will be sending Bob a big check soon, so they can finish replacing all the cancerous metal in the body (which isn't much). Just a windshield strip and a small section of the passenger's door, and it should be ready for paint! I did stop by not too long ago and see the front suspension, and it looks outstanding. All painted, with brand new hardware all around. The car is gonna be sick when it's done.

[seaking]

Dumb question from someone who doesn't really understand much of this:

Is this effectively another way of doing what SafeGuard does, only with the option of EFI? If EFI is not an requirement, is there a reason to choose this way of doing things?

[miniman82]

No, not the same. Safeguard has knock detection, this doesn't. But it does offer more timing accuracy, due to the deletion of the distributor. Because of that, detonation is less of an issue to begin with so you can make use of the accuracy to reap power benefits.

[keitho64]

In my car it is just the ignition being controlled by the computer. The Megajolt computer controls ignition only where the Megasquirt control EFI and ignition.

The benefits are a much hotter spark, better timing control and ability to dial in specific advance curves based upon load and rpm range. The best analogy I can give is the factory distributor is a linear advance with little control (think black and white TV). EDIS offers an infinitely adjustable curve (Color, HD, 3D TV). My car is normally aspirated so I am not expecting major improvements in performance but I may be surprised. I will post my results when it is all done.

In a turbo car the benefits are amazing. Nick gave me a ride in his car some time ago and the performance of the turbo was unbelievable. There was no denotation and it was smooth on and off boost. The boost built up faster that any other Corvair I road in. It still ranks as the fastest Corvair I road in.

I know there is a lot of debate about the benefits of EDIS but I know for a fact what it can do and that is why I am converting. If it works as good as I expect on the 64 it will be installed on the others. My whole conversion will cost less than $225.00, a pertronix with safeguard will cost more. I have no experience with the safe guard so I really cannot comment on how it compares to EDIS.

[seaking]

Thanks for the answers, everyone.

When I looked on eBay, I saw a number of EDIS kits which seem to run around $60-odd. None seem to include the computer module, which seem to run in the multiple hundreds. If it's possible to do the entire conversion for $225 or so, did that include the cost of the computer?

[miniman82]

It's usually possible to source the actual EDIS parts very cheap, either from Ebay or from a junk yard car. I don't know if Canada got Fords with EDIS, but in Europe it came on cars like the Mondeo. Here in the States, I got my parts off a V6 Taurus. After that, you have to buy the actual MJ box and that's really the only expensive part at $160 USD.

http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolte-p-41.html

[keitho64]

I purchased the Megajolt for $160 from Autosportlabs.com and the full EDIS kit off ebay for $50. Factor in shipping and I was at $225. The ebay sale included everything from the Ford.

[Ron Clevenger]

What kind of spark energy (millijoules) do this things deliver to the plug?

Blessings.........Ron

[miniman82]

Enough to run a 164 turbo at 10 lbs boost, and my 1915cc VW turbo at 15 PSI without misfires. No one knows for sure, but I can tell you that it will just about rip your arm off if you get hit by it...

[Ron Clevenger]

You say enough. I'm not familiar with this ignition manufacturer or is it a combination of stuff? I'm just curious as to how it compares with ignitions I've worked with over the years. The only way you can compare the deliverable energy of an ignition with a apple to apple comparison is the millijoules delivered to the spark plug itself. Ignition manufacture like to confuse the comparisons by high lighting different voltages or amps at various stages of the ignition.

As an example the current ignition I use on my blown (40 psi boost) gas dragster is a MSD 10 Plus which delivers 700 millijoules to the plug. on my son's blown alcohol engine we use a MSD Pro Mag 12 which delivers 300 millijoules. The MSD Pro Mag 44 which is used in Top Fuel racing delivers 950 MJ's and they use two of them.

Most of todays passenger cars are most likely under 100 millijoules.

I'm planning on using a MSD 6( rated at 135 millijoules) unit on the 1966 Corvair turbo deal I'm currently building.

Just curious......................Blessings...........Ron

[miniman82]

Probably not as much energy as a CDI style ignition, but what it lacks in power it makes up for in accuarcy. MSD distributor based systems still come up short when it comes to putting the spark right where it needs to be- it doesn't matter how strong the spark is if it's still not hitting at the right time, and I've found that having dead accuracy beats those fancy MSD setups every time and costs half as much.

[Ron Clevenger]

Probably not as much energy as a CDI style ignition, but what it lacks in power it makes up for in accuarcy. MSD distributor based systems still come up short when it comes to putting the spark right where it needs to be- it doesn't matter how strong the spark is if it's still not hitting at the right time, and I've found that having dead accuracy beats those fancy MSD setups every time and costs half as much.

That why I run a crank trigger with them. Definitely more accurate and stable for sure.
if your saving money and getting the job done

Blessings............Ron

[miniman82]

MSD 6 series ignitions still don't have programmable timing maps so far as I know though, so Megajolt still has an edge IMO.

[Ron Clevenger]

I've run (raced) with some of the fully programable ignitions and personally prefer some of the less complex ignitions. It's probably more generational related than anything. If you've grown up in the computer age your probably more likely to favor the programable stuff. I can tell you they are not fool proof ether.

So I tend to stick with some stuff that I feel comfortable with and I know delivers what I expect and I can personally work on it.

For my street Corvair I'm finishing up (probably this winter) I plan on using a HEI distributor and the MSD 6 BTM I'll list below.
For a street ride don't sell a good shape electronic point distributor short.

And that is probably why they make a lot of different stuff, different ideas to go along with them. The factories went that route to be compatible with there computer controls, electronic fuel injection and emissions more than anything else. It has certainly made the vehicles more expensive and difficult to work on.

"The 6 BTM is ideal for engines with a turbo or supercharger. Not only will the engine benefit from MSD's full power CD sparks, but there is also an adjustable boost/timing retard circuit to prevent detonation.When your turbo or blower forces the air/fuel mixture into the engine, the cylinder pressure inside the combustion chamber increases. The result is a great increase in power but this can also lead to detonation that can result in severe engine damage. The 6 BTM lets you dial away detonation by retarding the timing in relation to the boost pressure.A dash mounted control knob lets you adjust the amount of timing retard. It can be adjusted from 0 degrees per pound of boost to 3 degrees per pound (up to 15 degrees).The 6 BTM also shares the Soft Touch Rev Control of the 6AL Ignition for overrev protection. The BTM is supplied with rubber shock mounts and rpm modules for 3,000, 6,000, 7,000 and 8,000 rpm. "

Blessings................Ron

[miniman82]

Has nothing to do with being tech savvy, I simply can't get hte level of timing control I want with a distributor. The 6-BTM only allows cockpit control of boost retard; with MJ I can do boost retard, cruise advance, base timing, and even set shift lights from the drivers sat. I haven't touched a wrench to do anything timing related in over 3 years.