No Lights

[quadcarb]

Have been messing with Corvairs for 50 years (yes, my girlfriend, then wife, now ex-wife bought a new one in 1965. I Bought, sold, restored, overhauled, cannibalized Corvairs for twenty years thereafter. Never had any MAJOR light/electrical problems.

I retired in 2004 and am now in the process of selling one of my last remaining Corvairs, a 1966 Corsa that I restored in 1987-88 in Wyoming--now on Spokane, WA Craigslist. (The other is a 65 convertible with restored engine and body in sandable primer.)

Big problem: no head lights or tail lights. I started and drove it earlier this summer and found the headlights not working but the tail lights working okay. Now, a couple months later, no lights either. I suspect corrosion somewhere because of the cascading problem that had never been there before. I checked the fuses and put a tad of grease on the bases, but nothing. So I pulled the connection on the large wire bundle in the engine compartment just forward of thee battery, did same lube, but still nothing. So checked the power at the base of the fuse block and found that only the small amperage far-left fuse terminal on the fuse block has power. This single spot of power probably explains why the horn works.

There were some issues with the dimmer switch when i drove it up from Wyoming 11 years ago. Had to put my foot up under the dash and click it with my heel to dim the lights, but I would not think even total failure of that dimmer switch would knock out ALL of the lights. Am I right? Wondering if it could be the plug connection that resides behind the plastic defroster channels. There must be a headlight relay somewhere but I have not been able to find it. Unfortunately I have lost track of my Corvair manual, so can't do fundamental wire run search. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Editing here as per Brodie's suggestion. To simplify the problem: there are no lights anywhere except the key light when the key is on. of the five fuse clips on the fuse block, there is no power to the fuse block except on #2 fuse, which apparently is responsible for the horn honking. Checking with a volt meter, there is power also to #1 fuse also, but that is a n unfused terminal to (to allow non-ignition-switch power, I presume). The the remaining four fuse terminals have no incoming or outgoing power.

I just went out into the shop in the dark to test for other possibly glowing lights. Finally, the front parking lights came flashed on when the light switch was was slowly pulled and passed the half out position, but it is a delicate little spot that takes some juggling to get them to stay on, so apparently this switch is a trouble area. But still no tail lights. No brake lights either. Checked the 1057 bulbs and they seemed to be okay. Have not checked for power there yet. Will wait for daylight. Turn signal will make each front parking light come on bright as long as the turn signal is clicked into that position, so both elements are good, but no blinking. And no tail lights come on when the turn signal is switched. Did not think the heater was working but actuating the switch made the parking light dim a tad and after a number of off-on manipulations, the fan started, though with a significant squeal, so I guess that a dry bearing was hanging it up. The red bat-gen light comes on when the key is turned on, but that is the only dash light that illuminates. And the light in the original non-working AM radio also comes on. That is the total of the lighting in the car now.

I can tear the dash out and short across the light switch and see if that is the issue, but with no power to the fuse block, I would doubt it. I could not find the fuse block on the wiring schematic to try to trace the fuse block 12 volt source back to the battery. Surely the wires are soldered to the back of the fuse block, aren't they? I never had one off.

[bbodie52]

Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

You seem to be on the right track in trying to trace back to the power source to perform some troubleshooting and fault isolation. There could be multiple overlapping problems, but you really need some wiring schematics to help you to visualize what is going on so that you can see just where the power is dropping off when using a multimeter.

Do the rear brake lights function when the brake pedal is pressed? Do any of the turn signals function? These circuits are powered from the flasher and the brake light switch at the pedal (depending on the position of the turn signal switch in the steering column). They are independent of the headlights and driving running lights (front and rear), which are controlled by the light switch in the instrument panel. The only "common ground" in the small lighting running and turn/brake circuits is the 1157 bulbs and associated lamp sockets and socket grounds. The 1157 bulbs contain two filaments, and provide for both the running lights and the brighter turn signal/brake filaments.

The headlights are, of course, controlled by the same light switch that controls the instrument panel lights, the dome light, and the running lights. The floor-mounted dimmer switch is also a common problem area for the headlights only. It has nothing to do with the running lights.

Left-click each image to enlarge for better viewing...

1965-1969 Corvair Trunk Schematic Diagram

1965-1969 Corvair Interior Compartment Wiring Diagram

1965-1969 Corvair - Instrument Cluster and Body Harness (CORRECTED)

1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Diagram (CORRECTED)

The websites listed in the following link may be useful to you. Among other things, you can download Corvair shop manuals and numerous other technical manuals and guides in Adobe Reader (.pdf) format at no charge...

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

Corvair Forum viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007

I would like to encourage you to expand on your initial post and tell us more about yourself, your Corvair, and your goals for your Corvair. If you can describe your personal assessment of your mechanical skills and abilities, that would help a lot. Members of the Corvair Forum love to be helpful in assisting other Corvair owners with technical support and advice, but it helps a lot if we have some understanding of your technical background and mechanical abilities, Corvair-related knowledge, etc. Helping us to know more about you and your Corvair will help us to write comments to you that are tailored to your needs and experience. Pictures are great too, because pictures of your Corvair will help us to visualize where you are with your Corvair and its condition at the present time. Knowing your location is also useful, because knowing where you live can sometimes suggest possibilities to resolve some issues or problems.

[cad-kid]

Welcome, good luck on the wiring issue.

[quadcarb]

Thanks for reply, Jeremy. Got the diagrams downloaded, but can't find the fuse block on any of them. All electrical inputs to the fuse block are dead except the first on on the left, so have horn, wipers, starts and runs, ignition light on dash but that is the only light there. Will spend more time with the diagrams tomorrow.

Lloyd (four-carb), Plummer, Idaho

[bbodie52]

I have highlighted the fuse block in red in the schematic diagram below. You should note that not all circuits in the Corvair are powered through the fuse block. If you start near the battery in the engine compartment, you will see a thick wire labeled 10R (10 Gauge, Red). Tracing it to the next diagram Instrument Cluster and Body Harness (CORRECTED) you will see the 10R wire as the sixth wire down from the top on the right. It then routes to the 12 pin multi-connector at the top left, and on to the next diagram 1965-1969 Corvair Interior Compartment Wiring Diagram. From that 12-pin multi-connector the 10R wire travels to a wiring harness junction point, where it divides into five wires. (This junction can be seen in the schematic diagram below. It is above and to the left of the fuse block, directly left of the TURN SIGNAL FLASHER).

The five wires at this junction lead to...

1. The Horn Relay in the trunk. (Labeled 14R)
2. The Ignition Switch (Labeled 12R)
3. The Light Switch (Labeled 14R)
4. The Fuse Block (Labeled 12R)
5. The Cigarette Lighter (Labeled 14R)
Note: All wires in this distribution junction are RED. The numbers reflect the wire gauge, with 10 being the thickest and 14 being the thinnest wire.

So items 1, 2, 3, and 5 receive battery power without passing through the fuse block. Further power distribution occurs at the ignition switch and the light switch, as well as from the fuse block.

...so have horn, wipers, starts and runs, ignition light on dash...

The items on your list, horn and ignition, receive power directly from the wiring junction, and not through the fuse block. The headlights and running lights also receive power directly from the wiring junction connection to the light switch. The wipers are the only item on your list that receive power from the fuse block. And the wiper fuse is the fuse on the far right side of the fuse block, which you already indicated has power at the fuse block.

...Turn signal will make each front parking light come on bright as long as the turn signal is clicked into that position, so both elements are good, but no blinking. And no tail lights come on when the turn signal is switched...

It sounds like a separate problem with the rear turn signal lamps. The fact that you indicate that the front lamps come on when the turn signal switch is moved to that side indicates power from the fuse block to the flasher, and from the flasher through the turn signal switch and on to the front lights. But the flasher often will not flash (provide cycling on/off power) without "seeing" the correct current load (two bulbs — front and rear — not just the front bulb). The flasher depends on adequate current draw from BOTH the front and rear bulbs on the selected side. If current flow to the rear bulb is interrupted for any reason (i.e. bad turn signal switch, bad multi-connector, bad wiring harness, bad bulb socket, bad 1157 bulb filament, or bad ground at the bulb socket) the flasher will often flash rapidly or will get stuck and will not flash at all. Further troubleshooting will be needed to determine why the bright rear 1157 bulb filaments are not completing the circuit.

Do the front parking lights come on when you pull the light switch out halfway?

When you turn on the headlights, the rear driving lights should illuminate. In addition, the rear license plate light should also illuminate. (All are fed power from the same power circuit from the light switch). Does the license plate light come on? Have you checked this bulb if it does not? If all rear bulbs are OK but do not come on when the headlights are on, you may have a connectivity problem in the harness or multi-connector, or a problem at the light switch multi-connector, or in the light switch itself.

Have you tested the other fuses in the fuse block to ensure that they have not blown? If the fuses are good but have no power input, the fuse block may be faulty and you may have to examine the fuse block further to determine why. I have shown the fuse block wiring harness listing page from Clark's Corvair Parts below. Hopefully you will not find that the harness and fuse block are damaged, because a replacement harness with fuse block is fairly expensive.

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ow_page=98

[quadcarb]

Thanks a heap, bbodie, I had just run off your post to read when an interested party showed up an is buying the car. I gave him your response and the schematics. He is an electrical and "driveability" technician at a Cadillac garage about 40 miles away so is not intimidated by he light issue. Again, your response was outstanding. I have a primiered but now not running 65 convertible to get going and and so like Schwartzenager, "I'll be back."
quadcarb--Lloyd