Clutch Install

[65corvaircopnj]

I'm getting a knowledgable old car mechanic to install a new clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate. Any idea how many billable hours it should take? Thanks!

[Swngaxl]

First question is whether this mechanic is experienced with Corvairs. The reason is, this job requires the entire drive train to be removed from the car. (As a side note here, if he says he can remove the engine without pulling the transmission, find someone else!)

years ago, I knew a guy in my club who claimed he could do one in an evening after work. I remember in my younger days, I could pull my '64 into the basement, and have the drivetrain sitting on the ground 30 minutes later. That included time to jack the car up, one corner at a time, and put it on jack stands. Don't think I could do that now, been too long.

Point is, removing the drivetrain is not that bad, but you have to know what to disconnect, that is the time killer. If you have to figure out what to do and how to do it, how to fit the jack, etc it can take much longer. The rubber engine seals and heater hoses alone can be trying at times.

Plus, it is far too easy to put the new clutch plate in backwards. Do that, and you have to start all over again.

Hope this helps!

[bbodie52]

There are many possible problem areas that can surface when replacing a faulty Corvair clutch assembly. An inexperienced mechanic performing this task for the first time on a Corvair will take longer and can make mistakes along the way that can cause damage, such as damaging the throwout bearing shaft when separating the engine from the transaxle. Failure to order all of the needed parts, seals, etc. can add more time as the parts are ordered and delivered. I would normally pull the old clutch out and inspect everything before ordering new parts, so that everything needed is ordered and delivered at one time. And if the throwout bearing input shaft is found to be cracked or broken, it is necessary to dismantle the differential to replace it.

Here are some comments I wrote earlier regarding a clutch replacement job...

There are several options for replacing the flywheel, as depicted below. I have not had to replace a flywheel since 1980, and many of these options were not available back then, so I cannot personally recommend one method over another. Perhaps other Corvair Forum members can advise you on this. But I would recommend reading over all of the clutch section of the Clark's online catalog to familiarize yourself with flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch disc options. When you pull the powertrain and separate the transaxle from the engine. You will want to replace anything that appears worn, considering the condition of the pilot bushing, throwout bearing, pressure plate and clutch disc, crankshaft seal and input shaft seal. The throwout bearing shaft that protrudes from the differential should also be carefully examined for cracks or pieces that have been broken off (a common problem). Damage to this part can occur when you separate the transaxle from the engine, if the input shaft sticks in the clutch assembly and the other end of the two-foot splined shaft pulls free from the transmission. If the alignment of the transaxle and engine is not maintained while separating the two components, the input shaft can act like a lever and place lateral or downward pressure on the throwout bearing shaft – sometimes cracking or breaking it. Replacing that part requires dismantling the differential. Also, the input shaft seal should always be replaced, and the crankshaft seal should be examined for signs of oil leakage. In other words, going through the process of pulling the powertrain to replace a flywheel warrants a complete clutch assembly inspection and overhaul. You don't want to reassemble the powertrain with any worn or faulty clutch components, or you could have to repeat the procedure again to fix something you missed the first time!

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=109


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=110


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=111





http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=124


A spare clutch cable in the trunk is also not a bad idea. These can break and leave you stranded. A spare in the trunk as a part of your spares kit gives you a roadside repair option that can get you back on the road without having to wait for a parts shipment to replace this potential "show stopper".

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=112

[cvair4life]

I'm getting a knowledgable old car mechanic to install a new clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate. Any idea how many billable hours it should take? Thanks!

Assuming no complications and assuming that by "old car mechanic" you have somebody familiar with the way things used to be... and assuming he has a shop to work in.... My personal estimate would be to see no more than 8 hours of billed time.

I did 2 clutch plate swaps at a tech day with the help of a friend of mine in about 8 hours (just the two of us). That was bare bones tools in one of the guys backyard concrete patios and no lift (just floor jack and stands). Granted we had done a couple before and this wasn't something new and there were no complications (wild huh...) and there were two of us working together....

Long story short - billable hours should be 6-8 hours total.

[cvair4life]

First question is whether this mechanic is experienced with Corvairs. The reason is, this job requires the entire drive train to be removed from the car. (As a side note here, if he says he can remove the engine without pulling the transmission, find someone else!)

Not sure about that - every clutch job I've done has been engine only and not taking anything else out of the car... Now if you are thinking that there is a need to swap out the Throw Out Bearing Collar then yes - you get to remove the transmission + engine... and since you are into that much work... you might as well pull the differential and get some good cleaning time in on everything up in there.

If you haven't swapped out that collar before or are unsure of it's age... I advise you to consider doing that in this job.

But to that end - you don't have to remove anything but the engine (and it's comrades) to swap the clutch assembly out.

[bbodie52]

I've actually done it both ways... removing the engine alone without removing the transaxle (in both a Late Model and Early Model car, and with an automatic and manual transmission car). Juggling the alignment between the transaxle and the engine bell housing, and the alignment of the lengthy manual transmission splined input shaft with the engine balancing on a floor jack is not all that easy, and perhaps risks damage to the throwout bearing shaft. It is not that much more work to pull the entire transaxle – especially in an Early Model Corvair (1964-1969 has some additional suspension components that must be disconnected). Disconnecting the throttle, clutch and shift linkage takes only a few minutes. Pulling the axle shafts on an EM requires only removing the brake drums and removing four nuts on each side. Removing the half shafts on a LM is not hard either. (This also gives you a chance to examine the condition of the often-neglected universal joints).

Once you have pulled the axles and disconnected the throttle, clutch and shift linkage (and unplugged the backup light switch), dropping the entire powertrain in an EM Corvair requires removal of one nut in the rear and two nuts in the front. (I'm not listing the steps for disconnecting the engine components around the perimeter of the engine, which would have to be disconnected either way, with removal of the engine only or the entire powertrain).

Personally, I prefer removing the entire powertrain when doing a clutch job, removing the cylinder heads, or any other major job. It is easier having the powertrain out in the open when working on it than it is trying to do all that work while lying on your back under the car.

The attached reference, Corvair and Corvair 95 Power Train Removal & Installation, outlines the procedure.

[65corvaircopnj]

Thanks for the input everyone. I have removed the drivetrain twice before in my garage. The second time due to breaking the 'nose cone' on the diff. I was trying to cut corners by removing only the engine as a whole new suspension, 4spd, and rear were getting swapped in. Lesson learned that I should have mated the whole drivetrain the first time prior to installing!
I gave my mechanic the shop manual so he has a better idea what he's being asked to do and , yes he is one of those guys who 'remembers working on them when they were fairly new'. Thanks for the input guys, just didn't want to shell out 1.5 - 2 x what I should for his inexperience!