First look at my 64 MSC - AKA 'My God, what have I done!"

[Nickshu]

Ok Friends, Came back from vacation in Yellowstone today to find my new '64 Monza Spyder Convertible in the garage. Dad took delivery while I was away.

SOOOOO...had a chance to poke around a bit. I'm trying to get over the "my God what have I done" buying a 49 year old car with little or no tru info about it! I keep consoling myself in that I got it for a steal.

The Good:
Appears to have little to no rust, checked all the common areas and they passed the magnet test. This is a big relief.
Engine bay is pretty clean
Car appears to leak very little oil. Small amount under engine but after sitting in my garage for 4 days there is no oil on the floor under it.
Car is complete and VIN matches a "true" MSC. VIN is 40667W110346. Original window sticker included w/ car shows it was sold 10-22-1963 new in Columbus, OH.
Car starts and runs (albeit roughly). Drove it 10 feet in an out of the garage.
Appears to go into all gears easily. Shifter feels floppy.
Car has factory power top and posi-traction
Records that the seller claimed were "complete" are basically a mess of barely legible receipts and scribbles dating back to the mid-1990's. It appears the car had a lot of work done from 1996-1998 including engine/carb/turbo rebuild, the paint work, and various trim pieces replaced.

The Bad:
Car starts and will idle but very roughly and Carburetor is leaking gas from (appears to be) the top and bottom. It does rev smoothly.
Car smells strongly of gas - see above about carb.
Car has been repainted - badly. (records show it was in the mid 1990's) - Color was noted as "flame red - 1996 chevy color"? on the receipt)
Repaint appears to have been a full strip down, it's tough to find any evidence of blue on the car (see photo). But they left many items such as door latches, etc and just painted over them. LAZY!!!
Engine plate shows original color was Silver Blue (912-B) with Blue interior (732-1) - UGH.
Top is complete and opens closes but is in rough shape, as is all rubber

So my thoughts are that my long term goal is full restoration of the car to perfection (I am very detail oriented and patient). Right now though I'd like to get the leaking carb fixed and check compression to see where I am at. Any suggestions on the carb? I am a child of fuel injection so this is my first venture into a carbureted engine *but I am no spring chicken when it comes to mechanical repairs* so I am confident I can figure it out with all your help....

Photos below:

[Nickshu]

Here's the original window sticker. By the way what is "c c grp" and "sp whl lock"??

[miniman82]

Any suggestions on the carb?

Yup: get rid of it! I had nothing but trouble with the YH, I found it to be a terrible carb and not very adjustable. I wound up doing a Weber conversion, but I have yet to run the engine because the whole car is in resto.

I am a child of fuel injection, so this is my first venture into a carbureted engine.

Not to state the obvious, but do an EFI conversion on it if that's what you know. It'll be the smoothest running turbo Corvair ever seen, if you do it right. All of the above assume you aren't trying to keep a stock look...

Have you seen the distributorless ignition conversion? If you don't do anything else, at least do that.

[Augie]

They are all basket cases, tits or wheels man, tits or wheels..... Enjoy your new ride

[bbodie52]

Here's the original window sticker. By the way what is "c c grp" and "sp whl lock"??

I believe that "sp whl lock" was a special anti-theft wheel lock in the engine compartment to secure the spare tire. I think "c c grp" was Comfort and Convenience Group, which consisted of RPO Z01 and Z13, which on the Monza and Monza Spyder was an Outside Rear View Mirror (possibly remote control), 2-speed Windshield Wiper and Washer, and Inside non-glare Mirror. (see the attached GM Heritage Center document, page 8 - GENERAL.

1964 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf

1964 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs

(2.57 MiB) Downloaded 23 times

[Nickshu]

Also engine code says T09I4YR

Is this the correct engine code for a 64 MSC?

This does not seem to match what I have read, shouldn't it be a YM?

[bbodie52]

Also engine code says T09I4YR

Is this the correct engine code for a 64 MSC?

This does not seem to match what I have read, shouldn't it be a YM?

Suffix code "YM" indicates a 1964 110 hp Manual Transmission engine with air conditioning. The correct engine suffix code for the 150 hp turbocharged Spyder engine in 1962-1964 was "YR". (See the attached Technical Guide extract).

CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers.PDF

CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers

(1.25 MiB) Downloaded 33 times

[lonestranger]

Here's the original window sticker. By the way what is "c c grp" and "sp whl lock"??

20130706_174315.jpg

I think you will find the two listings stand for: "Comfort and Convenience Group" and "Spare Tire/Wheel Lock". That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

[Nickshu]

Also engine code says T09I4YR

Is this the correct engine code for a 64 MSC?

This does not seem to match what I have read, shouldn't it be a YM?

Suffix code "YM" indicates a 1964 110 hp Manual Transmission engine with air conditioning. The correct engine suffix code for the 150 hp turbocharged Spyder engine in 1962-1964 was "YR". (See the attached Technical Guide extract).

\

Thanks Brad, that's a big sigh of relief. That would make the numbers match up....the date on the engine code suggest the engine was built 09/14. The date on the car's VIN plate suggests it was built in the third week of September, so the dates on the engine and body match up.

So all in all the car is OK. It's a bit of a basketcase but I am Ok with that.

I am not interested in installing EFI on the car. I'd like to keep it as close to stock as possible.

So what do you think I should do about the carb? Just install a rebuilt one from Clarks? Any common leak areas I should check first (ie: loose fittings?) before I fork out $450 for a rebuilt from Clark's?

[Nickshu]

A couple more photos I snapped:

Diff code showing "HJ" which should be correct for a Posi-traction 3:55 ratio 4-speed box. (Ignore the oil drips on the cardboard...they are from my Porsche).

Engine code closeup as noted in above post:

I am still trying to find the "hidden" VIN stamped into the body near the driver's side front crossmember. At this point it looks like you cannot read it unless you remove the front suspension....correct??? It looks like the driver's front spring tower/support is in front of this pinch-weld part of the body where the "hidden" VIN stamp should be. Or am I missing something??

Also...can you check the codes on the cylinder heads with the engine in the car? I cannot see them.

Thanks all!

[bbodie52]

I believe this picture was taken from under the car at the rear, showing the cylinder head casting number.



You may find these two books to be helpful with your Corvair. The stock Carter YH carburetor appears to be troublesome and problematic, but if you own a turbocharged Corvair and want to keep it original, then learning to live with it is part of the price! I have also read some comments that seem to indicate that adding a fuel pressure regulator or switching from a mechanical fuel pump to a low-pressure electric fuel pump might be helpful with the Carter YH carburetor. I don't own a turbo Corvair and haven't since about 1971, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but if I did own one I think I would also want to own these two books. I do, in fact, own the second book (both the EM and LM versions of the How to Hotrod Corvairs... book, and I learned a lot from them. The Carter YH book has several positive reviews from consumers, so it might be a good supplement to the Corvair shop manual supplements.

http://www.amazon.com/Identify-Rebuild- ... =carter+yh

How to Identify and Rebuild Carter YH Carburetors Used on Corvair Turbocharged Engines



http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Corva ... pd_sim_b_1

Performance Corvairs: How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis



Left-click each image with your mouse to enlarge...

Book Review - PERFORMANCE CORVAIRS - CORSA Communique Jul-Aug 2013 - Page 12

Book Review - PERFORMANCE CORVAIRS - CORSA Communique Jul-Aug 2013 - Page 13

CORVAIR FORUM viewtopic.php?f=55&t=6053&p=41377&hilit ... ump#p41377



Electric Fuel Pump Installations
CORVAIR FORUM viewtopic.php?f=225&t=5832

[doctorwire]

I have a '63 spyder vert with the later 180hp turbo motor in it.
I had the same sort of issues: leaking gas, running rough, etc. Check the choke on the carb and the small chrome linkage to the throttle. Mine wasn't adjusted properly and was always holding the throttle open a bit which caused it to flood and spit gas out everywhere.
I solved the running rough issue by installing a new rubber coupling between the turbo outlet and the intake. It's amazing how much better it will run when all the little air leaks are fixed!
Hope this helps!

Rene

[miniman82]

I am not interested in installing EFI on the car. I'd like to keep it as close to stock as possible.

Then your only option is rebuilding the YH, I wish you luck.

So what do you think I should do about the carb? Just install a rebuilt one from Clarks? Any common leak areas I should check first (ie: loose fittings?) before I fork out $450 for a rebuilt from Clark's?

I wasted $200 having Clark's rebuild my carb, only to have it come back with the same issues. It was always pig rich no matter what I did, leaked like a sieve, and pinged on occasion when transitioning into boost. I tried literally everything to fix it, new needle and seat, pressure regulator, electric pump, rebuild kits, setting the float intentionally too low.... Nothing, I mean nothing fixed it. I gave up in disgust and melted it into a pile of pot metal. A Weber is by far a better carb, but it won't look stock. As I said, I wish you luck. Some people like them, I hate them with a passion.

[Nickshu]

Thanks guys. Will definitely do a fuel pressure regulator.

Electric fuel pump sounds good but from what I have read the mechanical pumps are pretty reliable so not sure it's worth the $$ unless someone here has a strong opinion otherwise.

I just ordered the Carter YH book by Bob Helt. From Googleing it appears it used to be available at various sites as a free PDF download but I can no longer find it. Looks like it was taken down. Would rather have it in digital copy than hard copy. Anyone have a digital copy they can share with me??

[Nickshu]

So today I unbolted the engine tins so I could check the cylinder head numbers. They match a 1964 164CID engine so based on this and the above I believe the engine is original to the car and certainly the correct one.

[Scott V]

Any suggestions on the carb?

the yh - when rebuilt by someone who knows what they are doing - is a good little carb. there are many, many good running vair turbos out there w/a yh. nothing wrong w/them when they are rebuilt properly.

if you dont want to or dont have the experiance to rebuild your yh - send it off to someone that knows what they are doing. steve goodman/rear engine specialists or ray sedman/american-pi.com or a few others will get you set up.

you dont need a fuel pressure regulator if the stock system is all there. the stock fuel return line must be connected. check the rubber *t* @ the gas tank. most of the time these are rotted & need replacement.

you dont need a electric fuel pump - but they do make things handy if you dont drive your car much. some people had poor reliability w/the stock type fuel pump. but then - i have heard some people had early failures w/a electric pump.

-Scott V.