63 Spyder Help

[rv6aaviator]

Hi guys,

New to the forum. Need some help. I have a 63 Spyder Turbo. I am getting detonation after 2000 RPM. Distributor, rotor, points, plug wires, plugs, condenser all are good. Vacum is good. Fuel flow and carb adjusted correctly. Had timing set to 24 degrees per manual and also tried 18 to 20 per clarks recomendation. Pressure retard seems O.K but it sure feels like when the turbo starts to kick in and I start getting detonataion that the timing is not retarding.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jeff
63 Spyder Turbo

[sam60]

Flat cam lobes?

[flat6_musik]

Pressure retard seems O.K but it sure feels like when the turbo starts to kick in and I start getting detonataion that the timing is not retarding......

Hi Jeff! Welcome to the forums! So......how did you determine that the pressure retard is working? I'll bet it's not.....

[rv6aaviator]

Flat 6,

I took the old one out. I am able to move the retard although it takes some force. I sprayed some cleaner into it, blew it out and put it back in. I'm not sure its good or not. How can it be tested? Tks.

[flat6_musik]

Well, if mine, I'd first blow in it to make sure the diaphragm's not leaking. On the air compressor in my garage, I have an air regulator on the output valve that I can adjust from 0 to 110 psi. I would probably connect a small hose to the pressure retard cannister and slooowwwly dial up a few pounds of air pressure and watch it to see if the whole distributor breaker plate is rotating too.

Oh yeah!!! I forgot!! Are you SURE you have a pressure retard cannister and NOT a vacuum advance unit?!? It's happened many times to people who have just bought their turbo cars.....previous owners who have inadvertently installed the wrong distributor by mistake.

[rv6aaviator]

I will try that tomorrow. Thanks. Currently, I can not get the distributor breaker plate to rotate when connected to the retard. The breaker plate moves freely when it is not connected to the retard.

It appears to me that it is a pressure retard unit. Part number on the arm is 250. In Clarks book that part is listed for 65-66 turbo corvairs. 62-64 turbos corvairs should have part number 224 or 231 but its replacement now is the the 250.

Should the breaker plate be in the "forward" position and then move towards the "rear" during operation?

My breaker plate is in the rear position and does not seem to move when RPM's are increased.

[Swngaxl]

Just a thought, have you checked your plugs? When I first rebuilt mine many years ago, the plugs would get fouled until everything seated in. So whenever I got under boost, it would miss and runn terrible. So, I had to blow it out once a week or so. A little bit of driving under boost took care of the plug fouling.

[rv6aaviator]

Just put in new plugs today. Drove it about 20 miles today. I am going to put on a few more mile tomorrow and pull plugs and see how they look. The may tell me something.....

Flat6 gave me some ideas on the pressure retard being bad. That's what my gut was telling me today after trouble shooting. But I"m not an expert....lol.

Thanks for the ideas. Keep ya posted.

[flat6_musik]

Might also want to double check the stamped numbers on your distributor just to make sure it's for a turbo. It's probably correct. The entire corvair distributor number listing is somewhere on the 'net. I think I posted it here once, but.....who knows where!

[bbodie52]

Here is some Corvair distributor ID information:

http://dalemfg.com/dale_024.htm

Distributor Charts for Corvair, 1960-1969

The graphic at right shows the advance weights and the letters A-E referenced below. Also the dimensions of the advance weight springs as refered to below.
These listed numbers below for distributor shafts, cams, and vacuum advance units are the actual stamped numbers on the parts as you find them.
Since all parts 1960 and 1961 and all parts 1962-1969 can be interchanged, there are many non stock combinations of parts. The centrifugal advance timing is controled by the cam, the distributor shaft (the timing control hole varies in size and location, thus controling amount of advance; in conjunction with point cam bottom shape, and interaction with the advance weight shape).
The bottom chart lists the actual distributors used with each engine for each year, both smog and non smog. The number is on the side of the distributor housing and all distributors numbers begin with #1110xxx. Thus, it is the last three numbers which define model of distributor. (Remember, the internal parts might not be origional, just because the housing number is correct).
Vacuum advance numbers begin with #1116xxx, the last three numbers being the ones stamped on the actual vacuum advance arm.

This downloadable file in Adobe Reader (.pdf) format will provide more informatioin to help you to verify your Corvair distributor.

Corvair Distributor Identification.pdf

Corvair Distributor Identification

(769.16 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

[rv6aaviator]

Confirmed that part number is correct on the distributor. Removed the pressure retard again. Sprayed some penetrating oil into it. Blew it out with a little air. Reinstalled it. Took the aircompressor and operated the retard with it. Moves with about 15 to 20 lbs of air pressure.

Went out and drove the car. Whola!! Running like a champ. Detonation is gone. Still going to install a new retard. Old one in working but it should have a new one.

Thanks a bunch guys!

[bbodie52]

Glad to hear that your perseverance paid off!

[bbodie52]

I looked up a pressure retard unit on the Clark's Website.

Part number C871R (Regular): 62-66 TURBO DIST PRESS RETARD-NOT ORIG REPRO-FITS ALL YEARS

Note: This part is not a perfect match for cx3169.

Weight: 0 lbs 6 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 51,78(12)
Price: $ 114.40

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=51


Part number C7877 (Performance): TURBO ADVANCE/RETARD *SET TIMING TO 18 BTDC

Note: This part is not a perfect match for cx3170.

Weight: 0 lbs 6 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 51
Price: $ 155.15

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=78

[cad-kid]

Great job on the repair! Thanks for letting us know what it was

[rv6aaviator]

Another question....does anybody know how much vacum the engine should be pulling? When I disconnect the vacum line going into the pressure retard and connect it to my vacum gauge, I am showing 15 inches.

When I tested my pressure retard, it takes about 20 psi from my aircompressor to get full travel. A new one is on the way.....

[bbodie52]

When I tested my pressure retard, it takes about 20 psi from my aircompressor to get full travel. A new one is on the way.....

This is probably a good idea. On the Corvair turbocharged engine, the pressure retard device is just about your only line of defense to protect your engine from damage caused by detonation. That – and a good grade of premium gasoline – are just about the only variables you can control (other than the amount of pressure you apply with your right foot to the gas pedal, and how long you operate the engine under boost conditions). The turbocharged Corvair engine is an economy design from the 1960s. Maximum available boost is restricted by the carburetor and exhaust, and the design of the turbocharger itself. Anti-detonation factors, as I said before, are primarily associated with the octane rating of the fuel and the distributor advance and pressure retard devices. There is nothing fancy like water injection, computer-controlled ignition and fuel injection systems, or an exhaust waste gate to help protect your engine. A knowledgeable driver who understands these factors will avoid excessive boost operation – especially on hot days and when climbing a long hill. In 1970 I was driving my turbocharged Corsa up a long grade in Southern California on a hot day. I was enjoying the power of the turbocharger – right up until it melted a hole in a piston! I don't remember hearing any pinging or signs of detonation – until I blew the engine. I am also not sure whether or not the pressure retard device was functioning properly. But either it failed or I pushed the engine too hard. Whatever the cause – one of the pistons suffered the consequences.

Re: Corvair 140 and 180 engines?
... is SOOO critical! You could blow your motor in probably less than 20 seconds of boost if things are wrong. I consider the corvair turbo motors a grenade with the pin already pulled. But I love a challenge! With a 110 or 140 and a few modifications, you can cruise and the engine should always ...

A harsh comment, but probably accurate! A careful owner is probably the best line of defense in keeping the turbocharged Corvair engine "grenade" from detonating. Keeping your engine properly tuned, using a good grade of premium fuel, and careful, diligent operation by a knowledgeable operator will (hopefully) keep your engine healthy and happy!