'66 Corvair Coupe - treatable rust?

[claytco]

I'm thinking of buying my first Corvair and found one pretty cheap with some slight rust. The worst cancer areas are the front and rear windshield frames and the floorboards. The rockers have some surface rust but no holes, and the front fenders both have small holes behind the wheel. My question is if the areas have readily available parts for replacement if necessary, and are there other hidden areas I should be looking at? The good thing is the vehicle has original paint with no bodywork ever done, and the door gaps are pretty good. I attached some pictures. Any expertise would be greatly appreciated!

[bbodie52]

I am not a body rot expert by any means, but surface rust at the base of the windshield, in door jams or fender wells can literally be the "tip of the iceberg". Are you prepared to do your own bodywork, or are you considering taking the car to a body shop to have the work done? If the owner of this Corvair will let you take it for a test drive, do you think a local body shop might be willing to take a look and give you some idea of the repairs involved and perhaps a cost estimate?

It also might be useful to check the CORSA (Corvair Society of America) website to determine if there is a local Corvair club chapter in your area. If there is, it might be useful to contact that club for advice. Perhaps you could attend the meeting and meet some other Corvair owners from the local area. Some might be willing to look at the car that you are considering and give you their opinion.

You did not mention what part of the country you are living in. If you live in an area that routinely has to deal with road salt in the winter, I would be very cautious about buying a local Corvair in such an area. Corvair body rot can be difficult to detect – especially for the untrained eye. Severe hidden rust and body problems can be very costly to repair. It is often far better to seek out a clean Corvair from a part of the country where it is unlikely that the car has been exposed to road salt. It is often better to pay a little more for a clean Corvair that is in sound condition than it is to buy someone else's problem and make it your own. Hidden mechanical problems or hidden body problems can become a nightmare. That is why it can be useful to attend a local Corvair club and to meet with local Corvair owners. Their experience and advice can be invaluable when purchasing your first Corvair. You can also obtain good, sound advice on this website, but photographs such as those provided cannot tell us very much about the condition of the Corvair body. For example, one person on this website lives in England and purchased a Corvair from a dealer in Pennsylvania. The car looked very clean in the photographs, so he took a chance, purchased the car, and had it shipped to England. The car turned out to be a nightmare. It was loaded with rust and body rot that had been carefully concealed with plastic filler (Bondo) and the photographs had been carefully taken to ensure that they did not expose the damaged body parts. The car was so bad that he felt it unsafe to drive. Since he is England he could not return the car. Instead, he has undertaken a major project to redo and strip the body from one end to the other to try to put it into reasonable shape. I only mention this to show that photographs and an untrained eye can miss tremendous problems in a Corvair body. Corvairs do not have a separate frame. They are constructed using unibody techniques where the body is the frame. Rust is one of the most serious problems in any Corvair. Even the newest Corvairs are more than 40 years old, and many were scrapped years ago. Good body parts and panels are not all that easy to obtain and Corvairs have become somewhat rare in junkyards. Overall it is best to be very cautious when buying your first Corvair, especially if you live in an area that would have potentially exposed the car to many years of corrosive road salt.

Here is a link to the Corvair Owners Society (CORSA) club chapter listing:

https://www.corvair.org/index.php?optio ... crmSID=3_u

Some clubs are more active than others, so there is no guarantee of what kind of support you will find if you are able to contact a local club. I suggest that you give it a try and see what kind of response you get. In the meantime perhaps you can get a local body shop to examine the rust and provide you with some feedback. Please keep us advised and let us know if you have any other questions.

One final thing: Do you have any mechanical experience and do you expect to do much of your own work on the suspension, powertrain, etc? Do not assume that you will be able to find local mechanics who know how to work a Corvairs. Experienced Corvair mechanics can be far away and expensive to use. It is important to get a realistic assessment of the mechanical condition of this car in addition to the condition of the body. Again, Corvair enthusiasts on this forum will be glad to help with advice and will try to answer your questions. If you can provide more detailed pictures of the interior, engine compartment, trunk, and underbody we might be able to tell you more. Also, does the seller have any historical maintenance documentation that you can examine? Do you know the mileage on the car? Many Corvairs may have had the speedometer replaced at some point, or the odometer or speedometer could be defective, so the mileage indicated may or may not be meaningful. If you're not prepared to do your own mechanical work, you must be very cautious. The purchase of a Corvair can be enjoyable, but for a first-time owner with no experience it can become a real problem. Good luck with your effort.

[bbodie52]

Here is something I wrote a while ago as a cautionary statement to first-time Corvair buyers... for what it's worth:

Since you are new to Corvairs, I want to give you some information that I have written to other new prospective first-time Corvair owners. I have been involved with Corvairs since I was nine years old, when my parents bought our first Corvair -- a brand new 1961 Monza 2-door coupe, white on red with a 4-speed transmission. I now own Corvair number ten, which I purchased last June. (If you want to read a brief personal biography that outlines my family background and our experiences with Corvairs, go to CORVAIR FORUM > Introductions > New from Lake Chatuge North Carolina. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4032 ) I want to encourage your enthusiasm in developing your plans to buy your first Corvair, but at the same time I want to help you to think through just what you are getting into. So please read and consider these comments below...

I have listened to many potential Corvair first-time owners. Many have no prior experience with owning any classic car, and many have never driven a Corvair at all, or have not driven one in decades. Some are motivated by childhood memories of a family Corvair. They typically describe the desire to locate a perfect, restored, ultra-clean example, and look to the Corvair Forum Corvair enthusiasts and aficionados to tell them what to do.

The first thing I think that needs to be done is to try to set-aside the usual emotion-based enthusiasm that any car buyer might feel when visiting a dealer and gazing with emotional eagerness at the vast array of new cars displayed in the showroom, on the car lot, and in factory brochures and advertisements. There is an extreme difference between owning a 40+ year-old Chevrolet that was likely engineered, designed and built with pre-planned obsolescence in mind -- a car that GM only envisioned having a life-span of ten years or so. Many of the potential Corvair buyers are captivated with the exciting idea of owning something different -- something not normally seen on the road -- something that your neighbor will not buy! Certainly that is the case with a Corvair, but owning a Corvair and enjoying that ownership demands a certain dose of reality before you "buy-in". Many are unprepared for the maintenance and upkeep demands of a Corvair. "Where can I find a good Corvair mechanic?" is a common question -- often displaying an inability or unwillingness to do some mechanical work and maintain that car yourself. Yet qualified Corvair mechanics can be distant, expensive, inconvenient, and all-too rare. At a time when finding even a spark plug, fan belt, or oil filter for a Corvair often means an Internet or mail-order purchase, finding local support may be unlikely or impossible. Even searching automobile junk yards will often not help, because these cars are so rare and infrequently found that they have all but disappeared from the scrap yards too. Even locating and buying a used part is a mail-order proposition. And even if you spend $15,000-$20,000 for a fully-restored Corvair in mint condition, it still comes "as-is", with no warranty and little in the way of a local support system -- far different than what most car buyers are used to expecting! These are the realities of owning an older classic car.

Corvairs are popular and affordable classic cars, and enjoy a good infrastructure of maintenance supporters, owner's clubs, and parts suppliers -- and that REALLY helps! But I suspect that most happy Corvair owners are something of "shade-tree mechanics" and hobbyists who are prepared to deal with the risks and problems related to Corvair ownership. It requires a long-term commitment and a dose of reality to happily own a classic Corvair. The "first date" infatuation with the attractiveness and uniqueness of a Corvair will not sustain you in a long-term relationship with a Corvair. It is far-better to have a realistic idea of just what you are getting into before you "take the plunge" and buy your dream car.

A cautious, knowledgeable and educated search for your dream Corvair is a great start, and a careful and realistic analysis of your own mechanical talents, skills and abilities is also useful. If you plan to have a mechanic do most of the work for you, the availability of a Corvair-skilled mechanic and the associated costs involved must be taken into account in your financial planning to own a Corvair.

I try to not be too negative, but I have worked with others who came to realize that Corvair ownership was more than they could handle. I just feel that new prospective Corvair owners come here to this forum to learn from others who have more experience, and we are not doing them any favors by "candy coating" the issues involved. If they pass the "sanity check" and still want to pursue buying a Corvair, then GREAT! This Forum and perhaps some local Corvair club members can potentially help them pursue that dream. But it should be a realistic dream, and not a frustrating "nightmare" experience. Better to make a clear-headed, informed decision early in the game!

[claytco]

I appreciate all the input and looking for a little more. Let me explain myself and the car a little further. I was a Toyota tech through school, and now a mechanical engineer at an engine technology company. I'm experienced with all facets of engine design and control systems, and pretty decent with racecar suspension theory. I've painted a car and a motorcycle in the past, but they didn't require much rust repair, just fender replacements and some body filler touch-up. I'm a decent fabricator... can hold my own with a MIG welder and a can run a Bridgeport (hopefully getting one for the home soon).

I'm now living in Michigan, and this state ridiculously saturates the roads with salt in the winter time so rust is common. Sorry the pics aren't better, but I just reposted them from the original advertisement. The owner claim's 35K original miles and that's what the speedo shows... whether it's true I don't know. I can confirm the paint is original and no bodywork has ever been done. My main concern is repairing the windshield framing and if the rockers are rotted from the inside out. The rockers still seem structural, but replacement could very well be necessary, and I've heard that replacement of the rockers can be one major headache due to the low torsional strength of the unibody construction, but I'm also thinking this may only apply to convertible models. Also, the driver's floorboard is rotted thru, the rear floorboards look solid. I'm not sure where to look for replacement sheet metal for these areas either, and may end up having a body shop do some of the work.

The overall mechanical condition is fair. The engine fires right up and idles well... the valve covers leak like a sieve. The vehicle can be driven home, granted it's only a ten minute drive.

I'm not sure of my intent for the vehicle yet... could go the restoration route or do something with a Porsche transaxle and vette suspension. I think I can get the guy down to $1300... what do you think?

[bbodie52]

It sounds like you have a lot of mechanical and technical background to help you. All Corvairs are subject to chassis strength and body rot problems, but those issues may be more noticeable in convertibles. Your description indicates signs of a lot of exposure to salt damage an body decay. Is this a mechanical parts car or a car worth restoring? How much time and money are you willing to invest in rust and decay repair? Have you examined the suspension components for rust and decay? A weakened front cross member sub-frame can be an issue. Fuel tank rust and decay can be a problem.

Valve cover leaks are usually easy to fix, and new gasket and o-ring materials, such as Viton, makes these leaks less-common. Since it is easy to fix, it seems strange that the owner has not taken care of such an obvious issue already. Neglect? Are there any missing, stripped, or broken valve cover bolts that would complicate the repair an make it more than a simple tightening or new gasket issue?

If you are not completely certain about bodywork and repair, and capable of fully diagnosing and analyzing the full condition of this Corvair body and accurately estimating the extent of needed repairs or methods needed to do those repairs (or the costs and time involved) it seems that it would be easy to get in "over your head".

The car has an automatic Powerglide 2-speed transmission. Is this what you want, or do you want a car with a manual transmission? Did you check the transmission fluid on the dipstick? Discolored transmission fluid or a burned smell of the transmission fluid can indicate transmission problems or a worn transmission.

Overall, the price does not seem excessive, but the cost of restoring a rotted body could be excessive. The value of the car, even as a parts car, is uncertain. I tend to be inclined to be willing to pay more for a clean car up-front, and would shy away from a northern-USA vehicle that is already displaying a lot of body rot. Realistically, do you want to restore such a car, or would you be happier looking elsewhere?

Next July 16-20 Kalamazoo, Michigan will be hosting the next CORSA (Corvair Owners Society of America) national convention. If that is not too far from your location, perhaps you would like to attend. You could meet many Corvair owners and aficionados there, and perhaps see many Corvairs for sale. There are also a number of active Corvair clubs in Michigan. I would suggest these local contact opportunities to possibly further explore your interests in owning a Corvair. The outcome of such efforts might produce a better result and outcome for you.

CORSA International Convention in Kalamazoo MI
Hosted by West Michigan Corvair Club
http://www.corvair.org/index.php?option ... et=1&id=61

CORSA Chapter Locator
https://www.corvair.org/index.php?optio ... 3&force=1&

Caveman Corvairs, The 1960 Group Morenci MI United States rjennings@cass.net
Detroit Area Corvair Club Swartz Creek MI United States corvairkid1963@aol.com
West Michigan Corvair Club Ravenna MI United States wmcc@corvair.org

[916pat]

Sure looks like that passenger door has been painted to me.

[Bobby65]

no disrespect to bbodie, i also live in Michigan and bought a Michigan car, yes there's rust but if that car really has original paint and is only 35,000miles rust would be the last thing i would worry about, if you can't poke holes in it its fine, these cars are some of the most solid unibodied cars. bring a magnet and drag it along the bottoms of the front fenders and rockers, but like i said if is 35,000 miles and looks like it i wouldn't worry about structural so much, the windsheild, you would have to pull the trim off to get a decent idea of whats there, but if all you have is winsheild frame to repair, i would imagine a decent body shop could handle it, you would have to get an estimate, i don't know how much it would be

[Scott V]

My main concern is repairing the windshield framing and if the rockers are rotted from the inside out. The rockers still seem structural, but replacement could very well be necessary, and I've heard that replacement of the rockers can be one major headache due to the low torsional strength of the unibody construction, but I'm also thinking this may only apply to convertible models. Also, the driver's floorboard is rotted thru, the rear floorboards look solid. I'm not sure where to look for replacement sheet metal for these areas either

vair coupes have very good torsional strength if the monocoque structure hasnt been compromised by rust or collision damage. verts have a added z-panel in the rockers for more stiffness but verts are kind of flexy.

replacement rockers, floor pans, etc., are available from clarks corvair parts. http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=193

the windshield/dash area repair is somewhat difficult as there are a number of different panels that join together in that area.

-Scott V.