Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

I do have a lm bellhousing on the engine in the car and will have one on this engine. I am using the em ball pivot on the clutch arm to keep things working with the EM flywheel and pressure plate.

I have heard about the flat finger PP issue and rpm clamping pressure, wasn't sure how prevalent it was. Probably best to use the LM setup. All the components would be LM: Bell housing and pivot ball, flywheel and pressure plate.

I did do the 64 trans, diff, suspension swap in my 63 Spyder with full rebuild. I notice a slight difference in shift feel but not dramatic.

Thanks for your thoughts.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
jimbrandberg
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:16 am

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by jimbrandberg »

I'm building a 110 for a guy who had pinging trouble with his old engine.
I've been intrigued by the Singh Groove idea but haven't done it yet. Any specifics? It looks to be closer to the Intake valve rather than in the middle.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Jim,
The width of the groove is 3/32 and widens slightly as it approaches the open part of the chamber.

It starts obviously after the head gasket sealing surface and is level with the floor where the valves are. In the picture that shows the welded carb opening, that is actually the operation that I am doing. (Picked up a nice set of angle tables for next time around so I don't have to half a$$ it.)

It should be "aimed" at the spark plug hole. I have seen chambers with multiple groves which all point to the spark plug hole, but I relied on Ken Hands experience and use the single groove.

It is important that the squish is below .050 otherwise it is not effective. Also the sharp edges formed from the groove should be lightly smoothed.

In the past some have said that it is a possible place for carbon to hide, but , I have seen pictures of engines that have been taken apart and the groove area is the cleanest part of the chamber.

Jim, I know that you are aware the step on the 110 is large and either the set has to be cut down/along with surface of the heads where the cylinders enter so they seat. Or, the combustion surface has to be welded up to achieve a much tighter squish.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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toms73novass
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Also, if anyone notices something I am doing wrong, let me know! This is only my 5th corvair engine build and there of those out there that are much more knowledgeable. When it not something you do on a regular basis, it is possible that I might miss something.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
RexJohnson
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:53 am

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by RexJohnson »

The bellhousing has nothing to do with the clutch so that will not effect its operation. The long stroke crank gear is approx .070" shorter than the short stroke so if you wanted to you could add a .070" washer under the fork pivot if you are using the early clutch system. You can miss match alot of the clutch parts as long as you keep track of the dimensions of the components and keep the totals the same. If you just start putting parts together is when you can get in trouble.
RJ Tools Salem, OR
69 conv pulling a 66 trailer
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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

I widened the oil passages behind the main bearings to 3/32 and also added extra oil passages thru the bearings as per Seth's book. Hopefully good oil flow to the crank at elevated rpm's :woo:

Waiting on crank to come back from machine shop being ground to 10/10.
Attachments
20240308_133423.jpg
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1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
chris
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by chris »

More good stuff to look at; thanks for sharing Tom!
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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Bit more prep.
I honed the cylinders at 400 since I am using Moly rings. Used old case half and a fixture I made for the last engine I built that really needed some honing. These cylinders were already to size .004 clearance as ordered from clarks at 280 hone.
2024-03-12_16-43-25_630.jpeg
Then washed thoroughly in hot dawn dish soap and rinsed, blown dry and then used heat gun to drive off all moisture. Then did white cloth test and no residue.
2024-03-12_16-46-32_819.jpeg
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
66vairguy
Posts: 4651
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by 66vairguy »

You probably know this, but always check the piston width and cylinder bore to verify clearance specified by the piston manufacturer. More than one person ended up with problems by "assuming" the pistons and cylinders done by a shop were in spec.

Many years ago there was a fiasco with the old TRW forged pistons. Due to vague terms some thought the 0.0015" was total, it was NOT. It was 0.0015" for EACH side or a total clearance of 0.003" I ran the TRW's at 0.003" and no issues. Quiet and not oil consumption.

Now many of the newer forged pistons can run at a tighter similiar to the factory cast pistons. If you run them too loose you'll get piston slap and possible issues with skirt damage.
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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Very true, I am using old school TRW that need .0015-.002 per side.

I bore miked the cylinders from Clarks and mic'd the piston skirts and I am at .004 clearance.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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toms73novass
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

The Crank was finished by the machine shop today so I was able to do some measurements.

The main bearings checked out with the plastigage and so did the cam, good news.

Put assembly lube on the crank and cam and put in block to measure endplay, checked out good.
20240315_134222.jpg
Put on factory temporary gear on camshaft to check camshaft against cam card.
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Have a lifter modified with aluminum rod to do measurements.
The lift was within .001 on intake and spot on for exhaust. Also the .050 measurements and durations matched the cam card. It is tough to see in the picture but the timing wheel is made from plexi and engraved, but in person it is easy to read.
20240315_141723.jpg
I also took a rod with bearing on it and swept the crank movement to make sure that I had enough clearance with the reliefs I had to make in the case for the longer throw of the LM crankshaft in a EM block. All was good.

Next I will double check the new cam gear matches the stock one and install on camshaft, do a few lock screws between cam and gear and dowel pin the crank gear.
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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toms73novass
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Latest photos:
Drilled and tapped cam gear and pinned crank gear for piece of mind.
2024-03-25_16-30-24_125.jpeg
20240326_101007.jpg
Balanced small and large end of rods.
20240326_174411.jpg
No time for rod to piston shots, have to do quick!
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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toms73novass
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:58 am
Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Checked for valve to piston clearance as per Bob Helts book. Plenty of room.
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All Cylinders installed and clearances look good.
20240329_155112.jpg
Next up are baffles!!!!!!!!!!! Don't want to forget. :rolling:
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
Wittsend
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:02 pm

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by Wittsend »

"Next up are baffles!!!!!!!!!!! Don't want to forget."

YES (don't forget the clips)! I had various notes hanging off the engine just for that purpose! :tu: In this "case" (literally and figuratively) the sequence, torque limit, places I put Hylomar on the case and a reminder to tighten the oil pick up bracket.
20220413_123857.jpg
'61 Lakewood in a coma for 50 years - now has a pulse
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toms73novass
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

Yes, important stuff! Notes as you get older is even more important. :tu:
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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toms73novass
Posts: 197
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Location: Grand Island NY

Re: Building a modded FI 140 for my Wagon

Post by toms73novass »

5 steps forward 2 steps back. Went to install harmonic balancer and the crank no longer wanted to spin, hmmmm.

Initially though that I missed something on the aluminum pan the the cam gear was hitting something, nope.

Ended up being the rear cover. This is one of the heavy cast early covers, that I wanted to keep with the original case.

The end of the cam contacted the cover as seen in this pic. When I was snugging down the cover I though it was the down pin being slight off.
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In the newer style there is more room.
20240331_124930.jpg
I used a annular cutter in opened up the area a bit. Now all is good, but of course I used my last gasket!

20240331_130653.jpg
1962 700 Wagon
1963 Spyder convertable
1965 Monza
1967 UltraVan 211
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