New owner, New member

[jmiahman]

While cleaning up my deceased grandparent's yard and removing some old appliances for my aunt, who still lives on their property, my almost 16-year-old son ran across an old car in a trash heap back behind an old shed. I knew there used to be an engineless Hornet back there so I went back there to chase him away from his next tetanus shot only to see a Chevrolet emblem and a rounded, strange-looking trunk and tail lights. What a strange car I thought. On the way home all my son could talk about was that cool car, realizing that it wasn't obviously an AMC but a Chevrolet I did a quick internet search and remembered, oh yeah it's a Corvair. I was thrown off, however, by the Chevrolet emblem on the back most EM and LM have some form of Covair on the back not Chevrolet, until I found a 1960 with Chevrolet on the back. I contacted my aunt to find out more information about it. My grandfather liked to work on cars, and most of the time had to keep the family cars running. I had no clue about them owning a Corvair though as a kid. In asking her about it she said she was going to scrap it, but would rather it go to family, I guess my grandfather was given it and never had time to work on it as he started to lose his vision, and working on cars got harder, so there it sat. The last time it was registered was 1978. My son has continued to bother me about it so yesterday we went back and I took a look at the Body Tag, sure enough, it's a 1960 Monza 900 Coupe, has some paint color (926) I can't identify, thinking it was a white-ish yellow and has a metallic green on the inside. Pretty worse for the wear, but the engine wasn't locked up so it has a chance. However I have to get it out of the heap of trash it's in, find a windshield, and see what I can do to get some air in the tires and it up on the trailer. We'll see how it goes. I think it would be a fun project car for my son and me my only concern is insurance, it's required in Arizona and if anyone will insure a 16-year-old driving a 1960 Corvair, I'm pretty sure it will need seat belts. In any case, excited to be a part of the community.

[joelsplace]

I couldn't say with Arizona but here in Texas cars are only required to have seat belts if they originally came with them. I drove a '62 in '86 when I was 19 and the insurance company didn't care what it was at the time.

[bbodie52]

Welcome, Jeremiah, to the Corvair Forum!

Here are Arizona's exemptions to the seatbelt law:

• Persons who are unable to wear a seat belt due to medical or psychological reasons.
• Letter carriers for the U.S. Postal Service.
• Drivers who operate motor vehicles that were originally manufactured without safety belts.
• Drivers of recreational vehicles.
• Drivers of commercial motor vehicles.
• Drivers of authorized emergency vehicles or any other vehicle transporting a child in cases of emergency to obtain necessary medical care.
• Drivers or passengers of motorhomes that are model year 1971 or older.

A 1960 year model Corvair had many unique components that changed in 1961 and later Corvairs. There were many design modifications and refinements that took place in later model years. In some ways the 1960 Corvair may be considered to be something of a prototype or developmental model year, and later year models were quickly redesigned and modified by GM engineers in ways that significantly improved the vehicle. This makes Corvair parts and component interchangeability and availability often a unique problem for the 1960 Corvair owner/restorer. As such, choosing a 1960 Corvair may not be the best choice for a new, inexperienced Corvair owner.

It can be argued that a person considering Corvair ownership for the first time must choose carefully. It is often much wiser to "buy in" by purchasing a running Corvair that is currently licensed and registered. Body rot, rust, and mechanical repair can become a real "money pit". Just because you have an old Corvair in your possession does not necessarily make it a potential driver vehicle or a good candidate for restoration.

There are CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters in the Phoenix and Tucson areas. Before proceeding or making a decision to spend time and money on your 1960 Corvair, I would suggest contacting a local Corvair owners club and perhaps attend one or more meetings to meet other experienced Corvair owners, discuss your interest in a Corvair, and hear their opinions. You may even be offered an opportunity to view, ride in, or even drive Corvairs within the club members' ownership to give you a better feel for just what you are getting into.

Joining a local Corvair group may be a big help in getting answers and recommendations that would be useful to you.

Cactus Corvair Club Mesa, AZ (Phoenix area) https://www.cactuscorvairclub.com/

While a salesman at Rudolph Chevrolet in Phoenix Arizona, Lou Grubb decided there were possibilities in an inexpensive, economy car produced by the Chevrolet Division, the Corvair. He sent letters to recent Corvair buyers and devotees alike inviting them to a social dedicated to appreciation of the car. With a promising response, discussion turned to organizing a new sports car club. With hasty planning, the first event was an economy run put together by a group of rookie enthusiasts who later became the first members of Cactus Corvair Club after its Constitution was signed in October 2, 1963.

We are the oldest, continually active, Corvair club in the world!

As part of the Phoenix Chapter of CORSA (Corvair Society of America) we hosted our first regional mini-convention in April of 1976. People from all over the country came, with an estimated 90 cars and 150 people attendees. The event included autocross, a concours show, driving tour of the Valley of the Sun, and a “Fiesta banquet. The Cactus Corvair Club hosts an annual All-Corvair show in early October, participates in classic car shows throughout the year (usually benefiting local charities), and supports classic car events, museums, and organizations dedicated to the preservation and public education of our automotive history. We are a community of car enthusiasts; all our events are family oriented and we are excited to meet you.

With the closing of Lou Grubb Chevrolet / Power Chevrolet dealerships, the Cactus Corvair Club moved to Thorobred Chevrolet in Chandler.

In 2016, the Thorobred Chevrolet dealership was sold to Earnhardt Auto Centers and is now Earnhardt Chevrolet Chandler. We hope for many more years of working with the new owners to promote the Corvair legacy as well as all the new Chevrolet offerings.

Tucson Corvair Association Tucson, AZ http://www.corvairs.org/
FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/TucsonCorvair/?ref=profile

I wrote this some time ago for prospective owners who are new to Corvairs. It might be useful to you...

Please look over the following comments that I wrote some time ago, and see if they might help you with learning about owning a Corvair. You may have already seen these comments and suggestions, but if not, I hope they are helpful...

As a new owner of a Corvair, I will try to answer a few of your questions directly, and will also provide some material that I wrote in the past to others who were also considering purchasing their first Corvair. My family purchased our first Corvair in 1961 when I was eight years old. My parents bought a brand-new 1961 Corvair Monza four-speed manual transmission coupe. In 1965 they sold the first Corvair and purchased a new 1965 Corvair Corsa convertible (140 hp 4×1 carburetor engine with four-speed transmission). At age 66, it must be painfully obvious that I like these cars, since my wife and I continue to drive a 1966 Corvair Corsa convertible with the same engine and transmission that my parents had in their 1965 Corvair many decades ago.

I have driven Corvairs all over the United States and in Europe as well. During my 24 year career in the Air Force I took two Corvairs with me when we were transferred to an assignment near Ramstein Air Base, in Kaiserslautern, West Germany. These Corvairs easily transported my wife and two children along with me to assignments all over the United States. They were our primary transportation for most of the 24 years that I was in the Air Force. They also did quite well on the German autobahn during my three year assignment in Europe.

To give you some idea of my confidence in driving Corvairs, I purchased our current 1966 Corvair Corsa convertible from a classic car dealer in Lakeland Florida. My wife and I purchased this car in 2012 for our 40th wedding anniversary. I spotted the car on eBay and negotiated the purchase over the phone. Trusting that the car would have no problems with a return trip, I purchased a bus ticket from Atlanta to Lakeland Florida, completed the transaction, and drove the car 565 miles back to our home in North Carolina. The Corvair attracted a lot of attention at practically every gas stop and fast food restaurant that I stopped at on the return trip. I was also the recipient of many smiles and thumbs-up signs at intersections while I waited for the light to change! People seem to like Corvairs, and my new convertible always seemed to attract attention in the parking lot as a crowd of curiosity lookers would gather around the car while asking many questions and telling me stories about their memories of having a family Corvair in their younger days. I can't guarantee that you will always be able to drive a Corvair over long distances without mechanical problems. These Corvairs are more than 50 years old, after all. But if you take the time to learn to maintain your Corvair properly and develop the DIY skills needed to take care of your Corvair, you can probably count on some pretty good results.

I wrote the following material some years ago to answer similar questions from other potential new Corvair owners...

Thanks. I hope my previous comments were helpful. Your comments seem to reflect interest but also uncertainty. I have worked with a number of first-time Corvair buyers in Europe who were considering a purchase of a car from USA sources (to provide a greater range of cars to consider), while knowing that such a effort would make it impossible for them to test drive or personally evaluate the car before purchasing and shipping it. Your circumstances are somewhat similar. They contacted local experienced Corvair owners and aficionados through this Corvair Forum and through local CORSA clubs, and they often found sympathetic club members who were willing to help as local "third party" volunteer assistants.

There is much to consider, and the material below is something I wrote some years ago to try to help the first-time Corvair buyer. Corvairs can be found from sources throughout the United States and Canada. I hope you will find these comments to be useful...

The Corvairs are vintage 1960s technology and design — easy to learn and easy to maintain. I would say that learning to work on a Corvair is analogous to an experienced home DIY "shade tree" car mechanic learning to work on a motorcycle. The concepts and procedures are very similar, but the details and the way it is put together is a little different. With the Corvair engine (like a motorcycle) you are dealing with a lot of aluminum. The metal is soft when compared to steel and cast iron, so the use of a torque wrench, anti-seize compound and carefully avoiding cross-threading becomes more important. Also, (like some motorcycles) you are dealing with multiple carburetors so tuning procedures are a little different. The use of Corvair shop manuals and supplements, other technical guides, and information sources like the Corvair Forum, and perhaps joining a CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapter can help you to quickly learn about Corvairs. Information resources, like good Corvair parts suppliers, are plentiful if you know where to look. Suppliers like Clark's Corvair Parts have been well-respected and extremely supportive since 1973, and suppliers like that make Corvair ownership more practical and much-more possible. I taught myself how to remove a Corvair powertrain, overhaul the engine, and rebuild the Powerglide transmission during my summer vacation in 1969, when I was sixteen years old. I was working alone (my father had been transferred by Lockheed from northern California to southern California, and we had not yet moved to join him). I had a shop manual and a garage full of tools. There was no Internet, no Corvair Forum, no CORSA club — I was pretty-much on my own. Yet I learned and was successful (in 1972 that engine carried me and my new bride on our wedding day and on our honeymoon).

So you should be able to master working on Corvairs without too much trouble — except watch out for rust and body rot! The Corvair is of unibody construction, so most body repair involves cutting and welding. The doors, trunk lid (in the front) , and engine compartment lid (in the back) and maybe the gas filler door are the only bolt-on body components. Everything else is cut and weld, and the body serves as the main chassis frame. So unless you are a master body repair technician, you need to select your Corvair carefully and avoid excessive hidden rust or a "Bondo bucket". The door frame areas, fenders, floor pan, the bottom of the trunk, lower windshield and battery area often rust and rot.

What follows is an attempt at introducing new prospective Corvair Owners to Corvairs and some of the issues involved. Food for thought, before you take the plunge. This is a copy of something I wrote earlier, but I think it may be helpful in your quest for the "right" Corvair...

I will try to provide a quick summary of the 1960-1969 Corvair lineup, and will also try to provide some answers regarding the use of a Corvair as a "daily driver".

EARLY MODEL: 1960 - 1964 Corvairs were the first generation. Their body style emulated other Chevrolet body styles from the early 1960s. The rear suspension was a swing-axle design that was similar to the Volkswagen "Beetle". The 1960 model year was the only year with a 140 cubic inch engine, and there were some characteristics that were unique to that model year only. A number of refinements were implemented in the following year, including some restyling of the front end and an increase in displacement to 145 cubic inches (CI). A manual choke was used in 1961, and this was changed to an automatic choke design in 1962 that remained with the car through 1969. A turbocharged 150 hp Spyder was introduced in 1962, and the Spyder name remained with the turbocharged engine through 1964. In 1964 the engine displacement in all Corvair engines increased from 145 CI to 164 CI. There were also some suspension refinements, including a front anti-sway bar and a rear transverse leaf spring to improve handling in all 1964 Corvairs. Here are a few pictures of Early Model (EM) 1960-1964 Corvairs...

1964 Monza Convertible


1964 Corvair Engine Compartment

1963 Monza Coupe

1963 Monza Interior

1962 Lakewood Station Wagon

Corvair Rampside Truck

Corvair Greenbrier Van

Van/Truck Interior

LATE MODEL:The 1965 Corvair introduced a completely new body style, that was also seen later in similar styles in the Camaro and Pontiac Firebird. The drum brake size was increased, and the swing-axle rear suspension design used in EM Corvairs was abandoned. The new rear suspension was a design lifted from the Corvette Stingray.

1965 and 1966 Corvairs were nearly identical. In 1967-69 the top of the line Corsa was dropped, leaving the Monza and economy 500 until production was discontinued in the spring of 1969. During the 1967-69 production period, there were minor safety changes, such as a dual master brake cylinder in place of the single unit used in 1960-1966. Interior seats and trim changed somewhat, paralleling the items used in Camaros and some other GM products during that period.

All 1965-66 Corsas came with a standard 4-carburetor 140 hp engine, and an optional 180 hp turbocharged engine. The 140 hp engine remained optional in the rest of the lineup. Other engine options in the Monza and 500 were 110 hp and 95 hp dual carburetor engines. All engines could be had with a manual 4-speed or 3-speed transmission, or with a 2-speed Powerglide automatic (with the exception of the 1965-66 turbocharged 180 hp engine, which was available with the Corsa only, and only with a 4-speed manual transmission).

Air conditioning was a rare option, but can be found in the 1965-1967 lineup, and some of the EM Corvairs as well. The following link will provide you with some air conditioned Corvair background and history...
http://www.corvair.org/chapters/airvairs/

The brakes, front and rear suspension, transaxle and body were essentially identical in the Corsa, Monza, and 500. The primary differences in the cars were the instrument panel (the Corsa had more gauges), trim details, and the engine option.

The late model Corvairs were available in a 2-door Coupe, 2-door Convertible, and 4-door Sedan. In 1968, the four-door hardtop was discontinued, leaving three models—the 500 and Monza Hardtop Coupes and the Monza Convertible. Air conditioning was dropped as an option. The weight of the cars was very similar in all configurations.


1965 Corvair Corsa Coupe




1965 Corvair Corsa Convertible


1965 Corvair Monza 4-Door Sedan


Corsa Interior (Top) / Monza Interior (Bottom)


140 hp 164 CI 4x1 Carburetor Engine (1965-1969)





Corvairs can suffer from rust and body rot problems, especially in areas that use a lot of road salt in the wintertime. While you may be able to learn and successfully attack most mechanical issues as a DIY effort, body decay can be much-more difficult, time-consuming, intimidating, and expensive to correct. So look for hidden rust or rot problems that may have been covered up with plastic filler, and be cautious in your Corvair selection.

A Corvair can serve well as a daily driver. But I would recommend a backup car or other alternatives, since ANY breakdown can put the car out of service for days until replacement parts can be obtained (if needed). If you have the skills and ability to work on the car yourself, repairs can often be completed fairly quickly. But if you have to rely on professional mechanics, downtime can be long and possibly expensive — if you can find a good mechanic to do the work for you.

Here is something I wrote over a year ago — Brad's Admonition, or some words of advice — based on over 50 years of exposure to Corvair ownership — that I wrote to try to give new Corvair buyers some idea of the issues involved. I'm sure you have some idea already, but I also think this is worth considering...

Since you are new to Corvairs, I want to give you some information that I have written to other new prospective first-time Corvair owners. I have been involved with Corvairs since I was eight years old, when my parents bought our first Corvair – a brand new 1961 Monza 2-door coupe, white on red with a 4-speed transmission. I now own Corvair number ten, which I purchased in June 2012. (If you want to read a brief personal biography that outlines my family background and our experiences with Corvairs, go to CORVAIR FORUM > Introductions > New from Lake Chatuge North Carolina. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4032 ) I want to encourage your enthusiasm in developing your plans to buy your first Corvair, but at the same time I want to help you to think through just what you are getting into. So please read and consider these comments below...

I have listened to many potential Corvair first-time owners. Many have no prior experience with owning any classic car, and many have never driven a Corvair at all, or have not driven one in decades. Some are motivated by childhood memories of a family Corvair. They typically describe the desire to locate a perfect, restored, ultra-clean example, and look to the Corvair Forum Corvair enthusiasts and aficionados to tell them what to do.

The first thing I think that needs to be done is to try to set-aside the usual emotion-based enthusiasm that any car buyer might feel when visiting a dealer and gazing with emotional eagerness at the vast array of new cars displayed in the showroom, on the car lot, and in factory brochures and advertisements. There is an extreme difference between owning a 50+ year-old Chevrolet that was likely engineered, designed and built with pre-planned obsolescence in mind — a car that GM only envisioned having a life-span of ten years or so. Many of the potential Corvair buyers are captivated with the exciting idea of owning something different — something not normally seen on the road — something that your neighbor will not buy! Certainly that is the case with a Corvair, but owning a Corvair and enjoying that ownership demands a certain dose of reality before you "buy-in". Many are unprepared for the maintenance and upkeep demands of a Corvair. "Where can I find a good Corvair mechanic?" is a common question — often displaying an inability or unwillingness to do some mechanical work and maintain that car yourself. Yet qualified Corvair mechanics can be distant, expensive, inconvenient, and all-too rare. At a time when finding even a spark plug, fan belt, or oil filter for a Corvair often means an Internet or mail-order purchase, finding local support may be unlikely or impossible. Even searching automobile junk yards will often not help, because these cars are so rare and infrequently found that they have all but disappeared from the scrap yards too. Even locating and buying a used part is a mail-order proposition. And even if you spend $15,000-$20,000 for a fully-restored Corvair in mint condition, it still comes "as-is", with no warranty and little in the way of a local support system — far different than what most car buyers are used to expecting! These are the realities of owning an older classic car.

Corvairs are popular and affordable classic cars, and enjoy a good infrastructure of maintenance supporters, owner's clubs, and parts suppliers — and that REALLY helps! But I suspect that most happy Corvair owners are something of "shade-tree mechanics" and hobbyists who are prepared to deal with the risks and problems related to Corvair ownership. It requires a long-term commitment and a dose of reality to happily own a classic Corvair. The "first date" infatuation with the attractiveness and uniqueness of a Corvair will not sustain you in a long-term relationship with a Corvair. It is far-better to have a realistic idea of just what you are getting into before you "take the plunge" and buy your dream car.

A cautious, knowledgeable and educated search for your dream Corvair is a great start, and a careful and realistic analysis of your own mechanical talents, skills and abilities is also useful. If you plan to have a mechanic do most of the work for you, the availability of a Corvair-skilled mechanic and the associated costs involved must be taken into account in your financial planning to own a Corvair.

I try to not be too negative, but I have worked with others who came to realize that Corvair ownership was more than they could handle. I just feel that new prospective Corvair owners come here to this forum to learn from others who have more experience, and we are not doing them any favors by "candy coating" the issues involved. If they pass the "sanity check" and still want to pursue buying a Corvair, then GREAT! This Forum and perhaps some local Corvair club members can potentially help them pursue that dream. But it should be a realistic dream, and not a frustrating "nightmare" experience. Better to make a clear-headed, informed decision early in the game!

I hope that these comments are useful to you. I know I get "long-winded", but I also know you are trying to make an important decision, and I hope all of these comments will help you.

A Corvair can serve well as a daily driver. But I would recommend a backup car or other alternatives, since ANY breakdown can put the car out of service for days until replacement parts can be obtained (if needed). If you have the skills and ability to work on the car yourself, repairs can often be completed fairly quickly. But if you have to rely on professional mechanics, downtime can be long and possibly expensive — if you can find a good mechanic to do the work for you.

If you wish to consider some price comparisons for drivable, complete Corvairs, here are several "Corvair For Sale" websites that may be useful...

eBay is one possibility...


CORVAIRS FOR SALE
https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages. ... =buyorsell


Just Listed!
https://www.corvair.org/go-shopping


Chevrolet Corvair for Sale
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/car ... et/corvair


Classifieds for Classic Chevrolet Corvair
http://classiccars.com/listings/find/al ... et/corvair


http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/che ... rvair.html

Corvairs for Sale
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Corvairs ... 7975069947



https://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/

Even a for "Corvairs for Sale" will produce many leads.

[Scott H]

That's cool. 1960 Monza's are rare. I only knew of four of them. Toyota Motor Museum has one, A guy named Travis has one he's working on. A girl in South Coast Corsa Club has one and mine. Now yours makes 5. I'm sure there are more but in the 14 years I've been involved that's the only ones I've seen. Here is mine.

[Scott H]

Here's my build thread. In case you are interested.

viewtopic.php?t=16544

[chris]

That's cool. 1960 Monza's are rare. I only knew of four of them. Toyota Motor Museum has one, A guy named Travis has one he's working on. A girl in South Coast Corsa Club has one and mine. Now yours makes 5. I'm sure there are more but in the 14 years I've been involved that's the only ones I've seen. Here is mine.

Jeremiah, I say go for it. Do you have any photos? Scott, this is OT, but it looks like you had yours on a dyno? If so, care to share the results?

[jmiahman]

I think I will go for it, I have done quite a bit of research and understand there are some bugs with the first version of anything, however it's a learning experience I'm sure for me but also my son. It won't have him around to much longer he's turning 16. I can weld, fairly handy with a wrench and love a challenge and am not to worried about getting back what I put in, but more worried about leaving a legacy. The legacy of the Corvair more pointedly the 1960 Coupe which in my opinion kicked off a lot of changes in the mindset of car manufacturers seems like a good fit for me. Plus the interior is Metallic Green, and just screaming to be restored. So if we fail we fail, but we'll give it our best and see what happens. Thank you all so much though for all the links and resources, I'll keep researching and getting to work. I'll post pictures soon, maybe setup a simple website or something.

[jmiahman]

Here's the fun Body Tag with the 926 Paint color that doesn't exist luckily enough there's enough places that still has the color I'll probably try and match it. Most likely it's a typo and it's really 936 (or 925) but I'll see.

[Scott H]

Scott, this is OT, but it looks like you had yours on a dyno? If so, care to share the results?

Here you go Chris.

Car gained over 5HP by installing the nashfan. It may have gained more but it was much hotter outside than the previous dyno run last year.
IMG_7022.jpeg

[chris]

Thanks for sharing Scott! And it looks like it's a stock 110?

[Scott H]

Thanks for sharing Scott! And it looks like it's a stock 110?

Yes stock 110.

[APieceOfChicken]

Hello Jmiahman, I believe you are my father.

[azdave]

Welcome jmiahman!

There are several 1960 Corvairs running around the Phoenix area. Some are still mostly stock but others have upgraded the engines.

If you want some inspiration, plan to attend the Arizona Corvair Cruise-in on March 2nd. We generally pull in about 25-30 Corvairs each year.

More info:
https://fb.me/e/1lRdCJkJW

viewtopic.php?t=19026

[Phil Dally]

WELCOME!!!

Best piece of advice you got was from azdave.

Definitely be at that club meet-up March 2nd.

Leave it on the trailer and take it with you!!

[jmiahman]

Welcome jmiahman!

There are several 1960 Corvairs running around the Phoenix area. Some are still mostly stock but others have upgraded the engines.

Can't wait to see a few and take some pictures. Hoping to find some with a similar body tag as ours that has used some of Clarks interior stuff, I have a green interior and they have like 5 shades of green all seem different and info for the 1960 is scarce. Hoping to get some pictures of one like ours to look at for inspiration. Did a compression test and Cylinders 1 and 6 have low pressure, so far I have just checked out 1 and the rocker arm was off the push rod, but the valve seems fine, weird, maybe a lifter issue. I guess we'll find out. My son (Yes user APieceofChicken is my son) has stripped out all the old interior and is working on grinding rust away so we can get a clearer picture of what's surface and what we need to repair. So far, so fun.

[jmiahman]

There was only one 1960 at the event last week, we were hoping there would be a few more but at least I got to meet Joe of Cahty's Corvair fame and see a pretty close to original 1960 that looked impressive. Hoping there will be more 60s we'll see at the upcoming events.