French owner introduction - 1966 4-doors Corvair

[auquomes]

Hi guys!
I'm doing my introduction right now as a new member of this forum.
I'm from France, living close to Versailles (former Kings of France main city) and I own a 1966 140HP 4-doors Corvair.

Corvair are really uncommon cars here in France and a very few are seen in car shows.
Mine was sold in France in 1966 and is supposed to be one over 3 remaining with those features: GM France, 4-Doors, 140HP.

All 3 remaining cars are metallic blue: 2 with black interior, one with blue interior (mine), as far as I know....

I'm glad to join this community bacause it's very hard to find information and parts in EU for those cars!

See what it looks like:

[flat6_musik]

Wow! Welcome to the forum! Very nice and obviously rare! Love the clear front turn signal lenses. I can't even imagine how much attention your car gets.

[bbodie52]

Bienvenue sur le Forum Corvair

Welcome to the Corvair Forum! You have a beautiful and very special Corvair Sedan!

I really like your 4-Door Corvair Sedan!

...but then I would...as I purchased my very similar blue 1966 Corvair sedan from the previous owner, a BMW dealership general manager in Southern California, a few years ago...


As you can see, I have two 1966 Corvairs — a 1966 Monza sedan and a 1966 Corsa convertible.

My Corvair sedan is similar to yours in color and with a Powerglide automatic transmission, but it has a 2 carburetor 110hp engine. It is somewhat unique in that it is fitted with the original GM factory Air Conditioning...

I would love to hear more of your experiences as a Corvair owner in France. Do you drive it a lot in France and perhaps other European countries? In 1980-1983 I was stationed at Ramstein Air Base, near Kaiserslautern, Germany. At that time, I brought two 1965 Corvairs with me...



I look forward to hearing more from you in the future!

[66vairguy]

Welcome --- A very nice car.

I bought a four door 1966 model four door Corvair on an impulse (and to save it from the junkyard) when nobody wanted them. It has been one of the most enjoyable old cars I've ever owned. Great fun to take to car shows.

Clear front turn signal lenses were required on Corvairs sold in some European countries. It would be interesting to know if the car was built in a European country. Not sure about the 1966 models, but some of the earlier Corvairs were assembled in Europe. At one time there were Corvair clubs in Germany and Switzerland, not sure now if they are active.

Welcome to what we call the "More doors" club. For many years the Corvair four door "Sport Sedan" (per GM the name for four door hardtop bodies) was ignored or cut up for parts to fix two door cars. Now they have been discovered as a good looking four door and something different.

Your car has a unique engine because 140HP engines with the automatic Powerglide transmission were different versus the 140HP engines used in the manual transmission cars. The camshaft is different, and it's timing was altered by a different crankshaft gear, to improve low RPM torque (better suited to the two speed automatic). The 140HP engine (with it's four carburetors), especially with the Powerglide transmission, was less common than the 110HP (two carburetors) engine typically ordered with the Powerglide transmission.

Even in the U.S.A your Corvair would be an uncommon combination. I have only seen one other Corvair with a 140HP engine and Powerglide. It's a two door Corvair owned by Greg Vargas in Los Angeles, California. Greg is in the South Coast Corsa club and runs the clubs Facebook and Instagram sites.

[bbodie52]

» Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:40 am
...Even in the U.S.A your Corvair would be an uncommon combination. I have only seen one other Corvair with a 140HP engine and Powerglide. It's a two door Corvair owned by Greg Vargas in Los Angeles, California. Greg is in the South Coast Corsa club and runs the clubs Facebook and Instagram sites...

Before I bought my blue 1966 Monza sedan from the BMW dealer in California, I tried to buy this rare 1966 140hp Powerglide Monza sedan (with Air Conditioning) at a North Carolina auction. Bidding started at about $9,000, but within seconds it escalated to over $20,000 and I dropped out.

[66vairguy]

Brad the 4 door with 140HP, Powerglide, and A/C is uncommon. While A/C sales increased in 66 (only year you could get A/C on a 140HP engine) it's estimated to have been installed on less than 6% of ALL 1966 model Corvairs.

The fellows car I spoke about also has factory A/C with his two door, 140HP and Powerglide. Over the years I've seen A/C in more four door cars than 2 door cars.

I'm only speculating, but I suspect his 2 door Monza with 140HP, Powerglide and A/C is an unusual combination. He has kept the car maintained and the interior is still the original and looks like new.

[auquomes]

Many thanks guys for your warm welcome!

I'm pretty impressed that you know more about my car than me

I knew this combination model was quite rare in the EU but I'm really surprised to read it's also in the US...
Can't believe a similar model could have been sold at more than 20,000$!

Anyway, I don't have A/C on my model

Actually I do have other cars, but only EU models. To be honest, I'm not so much interested in US cars
But when I first saw this Corvair before I get it, I said to myself that was probably one of the most beautiful car I've had even seen!
So I made an exception

Maybe you don't know a lot about Peugeot 204 don't you?
That was a popular French car built between 1965 and 1976 I'm really in love for.
Peugeot made 5 diffent bodies: 4-door, Coupé, convertible, station wagon an van.
I've got them all and this is what it looks like:

The convertible one has "US lights" used for Canadian exports. No one of them should have been sold in the US...

I also have an Italian 1971 Fiat 500L and a Californian 1960 VW Beetle with ragtop.

Regarding the Corvair itself, it was sold in France in 1966 and was a very luxury car for a French owner.
The car then moved into the "Nièvre" department, close to the city of Nevers (I let you see where it's located!) where an American car enthousiast bought it. He re-built the engine that was in very poor conditions at this time:

Then I bought it back to its previous owner: an old family friend who re-built the engine again after many years.

Unfortunately, I don't drive it a lot as I suspect valve stem seal to be broken: a huge smoke cloud goes out from the exhaust pipe each time I accelerate too much, or use the engine brake. That why I did not visit any French region and other EU countries with it neither

Parts had already been ordered from Clark's (you should know about the shop) but the repairs are not done yet.

Anyway, I'm still happy to own this car and to meet you guys to know a bit more of this car's history!

[66vairguy]

Not many Peugeot cars sold in the U.S.A. I recall seeing some 504's in S. California. They always amazed me that they could ride so soft, yet handled fine.

The Corvair engine ONLY has valve stem seals on the intake valves. If the oil is changed at 3,000 kilometer (about 2,000 miles) intervals the engine should go 80,000 to 120,000 miles before a rebuild. It uses any modern car motor oil at 10W30.

Smoking on takeoff after idling does suggest intake valve seals are an issue. Is the smoke dark gray/blue (oil) or is it light gray (gasoline)? The 140HP engines are notorious for issues with the secondary carburetors if the "sit" for too long without being opened (spirited driving). The fuel in the bowls turns to a gooey mess (not technical, but what happens).

The Corvair engine requires a high octane fuel. U.S.A and Euro octane numbers (for the same fuel) are different. For example --- Euro RON octane of 95 is the equivalent of U.S.A "averaged" octane of 91. Euro RON 95 should be adequate.

Rodent nest on engine ---- not the first time I've seen that when a car sits awhile. Check the heating system ducts. The top duct off the engine to the heater must not LEAK air or cylinder #5 will overheat. If the hose (hard to inspect) is torn, or chewed up, take the hose off the top of the engine shroud and install a plate to block off the hole in the shroud.

Good luck with your car.

[doug6423]

[Bruins_Fan]

Welcome to the forum. Very nice Corvair! I've been to Paris many times, and Versailles, of course!

When I was in college my parents gave me my mom's 1985 Peugeot 505s wagon, drove that the last 2 years of school. It was a comfortable car!

[auquomes]

The Corvair engine ONLY has valve stem seals on the intake valves. If the oil is changed at 3,000 kilometer (about 2,000 miles) intervals the engine should go 80,000 to 120,000 miles before a rebuild. It uses any modern car motor oil at 10W30.

Smoking on takeoff after idling does suggest intake valve seals are an issue. Is the smoke dark gray/blue (oil) or is it light gray (gasoline)? The 140HP engines are notorious for issues with the secondary carburetors if the "sit" for too long without being opened (spirited driving). The fuel in the bowls turns to a gooey mess (not technical, but what happens).

The Corvair engine requires a high octane fuel. U.S.A and Euro octane numbers (for the same fuel) are different. For example --- Euro RON octane of 95 is the equivalent of U.S.A "averaged" octane of 91. Euro RON 95 should be adequate.

Rodent nest on engine ---- not the first time I've seen that when a car sits awhile. Check the heating system ducts. The top duct off the engine to the heater must not LEAK air or cylinder #5 will overheat. If the hose (hard to inspect) is torn, or chewed up, take the hose off the top of the engine shroud and install a plate to block off the hole in the shroud.

Good luck with your car.

Many thanks for your very sharp explanations!

Regarding fuel, I'm using 98 fuel (higher octane number) with, in addition, a bit of lead substitute (1mL/Liter of fuel), as I do on all my other old cars.

Pictures where we see rodent nest on the engine are very old (I was not the owner at this time), and the engine had been re-built since.
Anyway, I know valve stem seals should not have ever been changed. As the smoke color looks clear (like blue/gray), I'm pretty sure it's oil.
Moreover, I turned on the engine last weekend (first time in 3 months becasue of brake issues), a HUGE smoke cloud appeared + "clic" valve noise during a few hundred meters. So I suspect oil to have fallen into cylinders when car was parked during 3 months, and burst it all when I started the engine. That's why I'm more and more confident on valve stem seals issue...
Need motivation now to change intake valve stem seals I already have

As your knowledge looks to be very large, should I ask an extra question?

After replacing master cylinder + 4 wheel cylinders, the car fiercely goes on the left when I push the brake pedal (same problem before I changed all the system). So, I'm about to change brake shoes also.
In the mean time, I'd like to change the 2 front bearings (that I removed for changing the cylinder). Those ones are quite easy to remove with no extra tool. This bearing takes place at the end of the stub axle (not sure of the translation for this one )
However, when I'm looking at parts websites, those ones talk about 'inner' and 'outer' bearings whereas I thought there was only one bearing for each wheel on front axle.

This one is for 'inner':

This one for 'outer':

Both should fit for '66 Corvairs.

I would have ordered the second one, but I don't know what the ring showed on the picture is made for...

Maybe you can help?

[66vairguy]

First - DO NOT USES A LEADED FUEL ADDITIVE. It is necessary only for old cars with cash iron heads (no inserted valve seats). Since the Corvair has aluminum heads WITH hardened valve seats NO lead in the fuel is required. Also lead fouls the oil and decreases spark plug life by 50% by fouling the porcelain (just my observation).

The Corvair engine does occasionally have a "clicking" valve on startup, especially when the engine sits awhile. If it goes away when the engine warms up, it is NOT an issue. The valvetrain uses hydraulic self adjusting valve lifters (standard GM design). Unlike inline six or V8's of the time the Corvair lifters lay on their side and sometimes lose oil (called bleed down). They should always be fine when the engine warms up. Be warned that adjusting "hydraulic" valve lifters is more art than science. DO inquire how to do it BEFORE attempting it. Better yet --- if they are not an issue, leave them alone. Well maintained Corvairs have gone 100,000 miles WITHOUT a valve adjustment.

The 1966 Corvair has "automatic" adjusting drum brakes (when you back up the car and stop the "adjuster" is activated). I make my Corvair drum brakes work, but they can be a challenge to get correct (as are any self adjusting drum brakes). I must emphasize that is is very easy to assemble the associated braking hardware incorrectly. I've done it myself. The shop manual is not the best for illustrating were things go.

Pages have literately been written about issues with drum brakes not stopping evenly. Your car "pulls" to the left. So either the front left brake is grabbing, or the right brake is NOT working. Rear brakes can also cause "pulling", but you said "fiercely" and this suggests it's a front wheel brake issue. Replacing the master and wheel cylinders was a good idea. I almost always replace these items on a car that has sat inactive for years. Did you replace the rubber brake hoses? Many people are unaware that these are perishable items and 10years is the practical design life. Yet I've seen Corvairs with the original hoses that are about five decades old!! The interior of the hoses can collapse and block fluid to PREVENT the brake shoes from activating OR prevent them from releasing (then they overheat and the car doesn't stop well).

You may have noticed raised areas on the backing plate the brake shoes sit against (small springs and pins hold the brake shoes against the backing plate raised areas). If these areas are badly grooved it will cause the shoes to "bind" during brake application. The grooves can be welded up and ground flush.

Another issue is brake shoes contaminated with oil or grease. We can still buy "spray brake cleaner" here and it's effective at cleaning the shoes and drums. ANY oil/grease on the brake shoe or brake drum contact area IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

If you do get new brake shoes please note: One issue is new brake lining material is harder than the original causing higher pedal pressure to stop the car. I use a custom shop that relines my brake shoes with a softer lining material from Germany and "arcs" them on a machine to match the radius of the brake drum (radius changes when the drums are machined for an even contact surface).

Well --- you'll be getting up in a few hours and I'm late for dinner. So perhaps Brad will cover the wheel bearing procedure. Regards.

[auquomes]

That's really intesresting to read all that.

That's understood regarding the lead substitute, I won't do anymore I promise!

Regarding my brakes, I changed my rubber brake hoses like 2 years ago when I bought the car so I don't think the issue comes from this side.
My brake shoes don't look so dirty neither (no oil) but they are probably very old so I'm pretty confident changing them may solve the brake issue.

Seeing all your knowledge, I'm surprised you can't answer about the bearings! :D

[auquomes]

Honestly, after doing sone researches myself, I can't find the difference between inner bearings and outer bearings.
Can't find any schema on the Internet.
I'm really surprised to be able to bake off the bearing I was talking about (the one I removed for changing the brake cylinder) without any tool.
Was it supposed to be hardly handled on the stub?

Anyway I can't identify what the second bearing is made for, where it is neither.
Maybe that would be good to change both if I plan to change the first one?

[bbodie52]

When you remove the front wheel hub, you remove the cotter pin (right (passenger) side) and nut, or the special locking ring clip (left (driver) side) and nut. (Left-side is special because speedometer drive cable passes through the left-side axle, and a cotter pin will not pass through). This permits removal of the washer and small (outer) axle bearing. The larger inner bearing remains in the hub when you pull it off, and is held in-place by the grease seal. To remove the inner bearing to clean and repack the grease and inspect the bearing and bearing race, the grease seal must be pried out and replaced with a new seal.

https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalo ... w_page=152

Part number C320: VAN & 65-69 FRONT INNER WHEEL BEARING*

Weight: 0 lbs 6 oz
Catalog Page(s): 107,152
Price: $ 20.55


Part number C318: VAN & 65-69 FRONT OUTER WHEEL BEARING* * $ SAVER-C8454

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Page(s): 107,152
Price: $ 19.95


Part number C320A: 65-69 FRONT WHEEL BEARING SEAL

Weight: 0 lbs 2 oz
Catalog Page(s): 107,152
Price:
1 - 2 $ 3.60


See Page SUSPENSION 3-5

1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 3 - FRONT SUSPENSION.pdf

1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual - SECTION 3 - FRONT SUSPENSION

(4.67 MiB) Downloaded 15 times

[66vairguy]

That's really intesresting to read all that.

That's understood regarding the lead substitute, I won't do anymore I promise!

Regarding my brakes, I changed my rubber brake hoses like 2 years ago when I bought the car so I don't think the issue comes from this side.
My brake shoes don't look so dirty neither (no oil) but they are probably very old so I'm pretty confident changing them may solve the brake issue.

Seeing all your knowledge, I'm surprised you can't answer about the bearings! :D

I could have posted about the bearings, it's just I was out of time during my last post. Brad did a fine job with information and included the seal WHICH should always be changed if you remove the bearing. Keep in mind the inner races must be removed and new races pressed in. HOWEVER --- If the bearings were properly lubricated they will last a LONG time. If the bearing rollers and races look good there is no need to replace them.

The primary reason the bearings fail is because there were not greased periodically, or the castle/hub nut was over tightened. If you don't have the procedure to tighten the castle/hub nut then ask. See attached front wheel bearing chart. The "SET" in parenthesis is the number for both the bearing and race sold together, although now that's uncommon. I NEVER install a new bearing in an old race --- just me.

Someday you'll have to replace the rear axle hub bearings (there is NO provision to lubricate them). Replacing the rear bearings requires special tools and a BIG press to do it correctly. Those bearings typically fail between 30,000 to 100,000 miles. Why such big range? It depends on how the factory clearances were set up (uses shims). The factory tolerance range was large to facilitate fast assembly. Now the shim tolerance has been reduced for an endplay of 0.002 - 0.003 inches (no less, no more). This narrow tolerance improves bearing lifespan. BTW the Corvair rear axle hub design is based on the 60's Corvette IRS and one of the bearing was used by the Corvette hub. I'm old and retired and I made my own assembly tool to set the correct end play (before adding grease), as a few others have and my average time to PROPERLY rebuild a rear axle assembly with new bearings is 4-5 hours, AFTER I get it apart.