Hidden secrets of a $15k offered Corvair

[UGLYTRUK]

Well said... One works a lifetime building a reputation, hopefully a good one, and one deal or situation brings the wrath of public opinion down on what looks like should have been a private matter, unless seller would not have responded. I'm sure there's lots of good stuff about the car, and I would agree, $10-15k doesn't buy a 99 point car or close to it.
Roberto... How's the car been driving? How many other CORSA's did you look at buying? It's no secret that only western or south-western cars are the least rust prone. Unless the color combo was a must have, why shop anywhere in the rust-belt?

[robertto]

First of all, why close the thread?

I understand a forum as an open discussion board. Please feel free to write your opinion. Maybe I feel wrong and a Corsa Coupé offered for 15k with a few rustholes is a good deal as the seller is seeing.

I write only facts I can prove.

Everything written before here I have informed the seller. But at least he let shine through he is not interested in. His last email begun with ""Seek and you shall find brother, ..."

[robertto]

Roberto, our friend! First, you didn't pay $15k for the car, you paid $12,200 and we refunded you $500.

I never wrote I paid 15k. I paid 12,2k (without wheels and tires, to be correct).

The car was not purchased from Ebay. In our advertisement, we stated that any rust was expertly cut out and welded in, and it was.

It was not. You "forgot" an 8 inch long rusthole behind the gas filler cap, little rustholes behind the mask of the front lights and rustholes on the inside of the left AND right quarterpanels.

The fact that a very SMALL spot inside the gas door, up high, was missed by the body man was not misleading or deceptive on our part, it was simply not seen.
Initially, you asked for $2500 in damages. Sir, this is a repair in a non structural area that could be easily and completely repaired. You chose to insult us for recommending 'shoddy' work. We have discussed this repair with several reputable body shops and they all agreed with our recommendations.

I would never do a "glassfibre job in this area for a car I love and take care.

We offered to you to fly here and view the car. You chose to purchase it sight unseen. You had the opportunity to reject the car in LA.

How to reject a car who is fully paid and I paid $800.- for tires and wheels and $ 1000.- for a transport to L.A. Would you paid me back the full price plus 1800.- and pick up the car in L.A.?? I am sure, not!

You notified us that you found the little hole inside the gas door, but you accepted the car. At that time, you exhausted your options when you agreed to take the $500 and consider it resolved.

At that time I believed you and your bodyman overlooked the rusthole by the gas filler cap. I thought I find no more "hidden secrets", but I did.

We took a lot of care describing the car, sending photos of before and after our restoration,

That is correct but you "forgot" to document the essentially parts.

which everyone knows, we are not a commercial shop or dealership. We are a couple of hobbyists who love to keep Corvairs on the road. Because we didn't meet your European standards, standards you did not describe prior to the sale, you own the results.

We could certainly post portions of your communications that would reflect a negative light upon you, but at this point, we won't.

I have nothing to disguise!

What we'll explain for the Corvair Community is that integrity is integrity, no matter the distance or the language barrier. If you had a high level of perfection, it would have been in your best interest to fly in and see the car prior to purchasing.

Is it a too high level of perfection, when I expect for this price and with this description in the ad a car without rustholes?

In no way would we ever pass along a car with a flaw without disclosing that flaw.

We are deeply disappointed with the drama and the misleading statements from you, Roberto. The car is worth what you paid for it, and more.

This is an essential question!

[robertto]

Roberto:
Upon reviewing my e mails with you on the subject, I have decided to disclose and this: a direct copy and paste of your last communication with us, when you accepted $500 toward the repairs
Delivered to us on October 28, 2013:

Dear Teresa, dear John,

I stated my points.

If you will accept a pay back of $ 500.- it will be also fine to me and I will never loose any word of this unlucky detail otherwise of a very correct deal.

MfG Robert Tomitzi

At this time I only discovered the first rusthole by the gas filler cap but later my bodyman who repaired the area discovered more rusty areas AND holes. After that it is no more "a very correct deal to me"!!

our promise was kept, we gave you $500 and a wonderful 65 Corsa. We also apologized profusely because we all missed it. We had this car for several years and watched the restoration with care. I guess when Corvairs reach $50K we'll all have to take a little better care with the restorations. But for now, in the US, they are still the "poor man's porche" and that's what we are, low tech, keep em on the road, Corvair folks.

[mart]

I for one have learned never to buy a car from USA described as " RESTORED" as the standard of work can not be personally inspected from across the pond. There seems to be a "if it looks good , it is good" culture among certain restorers (not only in US). I would spend the money and pay for an independent inspection, but would still expect to find items that do not match up to strict European safety standards , as US standards are much lower for older cars, with certain state inspections bordering on a joke.If I had done this before buying mine , I would have spent $350 and saved $4,000 and a trapped spinal disc

[UGLYTRUK]

Hey mart... where's the link to your adventure?

And Robertto, did you consider looking at the car in Iowa before paying for it and having it shipped? I understand that vacation time is always limited, and possibly you would have liked to start your vacation in Los Angeles, not farm country.

Aside from the rust issues, how is the car?

[TikiRalf]

Hey mart... where's the link to your adventure?

And Robertto, did you consider looking at the car in Iowa before paying for it and having it shipped? I understand that vacation time is always limited, and possibly you would have liked to start your vacation in Los Angeles, not farm country.

Aside from the rust issues, how is the car?

I bet the car runs great, drove it in Farm Country, and i like the farm country area more than LA, but thats personal,
Cars looks nice outdoor, i wish i could buy it, for the rest hope you can enjoy it after the repairs, always something hidden/or when you look closer (after the exitement) you spot some details/places that are not so good, or you want it better because of the rest of the car looks already good.

Enjoy driving it! Ralf

[UGLYTRUK]

True words Ralf

[robertto]

Hey mart... where's the link to your adventure?

And Robertto, did you consider looking at the car in Iowa before paying for it and having it shipped? I understand that vacation time is always limited, and possibly you would have liked to start your vacation in Los Angeles, not farm country.

Aside from the rust issues, how is the car?

Sure I have thought to inspect the car personally. But I believed the statements of the seller. "Everything with the car is fine." That was my fault.


Aside from the rust issues, the car runs fine like Ralf is telling, the chassis is rattle free. The carbs miss the choke, needs a adjust and synchronization and a few electric works.

Don´t misunderstand me. At least I will be happy with the car, but it takes time and money.

[mart]

Hey mart... where's the link to your adventure?

And Robertto, did you consider looking at the car in Iowa before paying for it and having it shipped? I understand that vacation time is always limited, and possibly you would have liked to start your vacation in Los Angeles, not farm country.

Aside from the rust issues, how is the car?

JUST LOOK FOR PENNSYLVANIA BONDO BUCKET IN THIS SECTION

[robertto]

After all. Here are a few pics how it looks today.! I removed the wheeltrim, it looks more sportier to me and I painted and detailed the Rocket aluminium wheels.

[UGLYTRUK]

Robertto, can you show pix of the rust repair procedure?

[jtvairs]

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; You can check on the forum, if you like. I can post a dozen or more photos of the work, if you like. As we stated before, we didn't do a rotisserie style restoration, nor did we advertise that was done to the car. The body man missed a spot that was tough to see. We never saw it or it would have been repaired.

Our objection has been 1. the title. "Hidden secrets of a car offered for $15k". 2. The implication that we sold a car and had knowledge that Roberto expected a rotisserie, nut and bolt replacement restoration and we sent him a car that was a 'rust bucket' as he has described in his communications to us. 3. At one point, we felt he did not understand and told him that we would NOT sell him the car, we were uneasy with the transaction. 4. Roberto came back and asked us repeatedly to sell him the car. Against my (Teresa's) gut feeling, we sold Roberto the car.

We did not realize his expectations until much later...that for $12K, he expected a $30K restoration. Having decades of experience in the Corvair world, we understand the valuation of vehicles well. This car would score a solid #2 for condition, Roberto feels the car should be judged lower than a #3 and worth perhaps $6K. This car had an entirely new interior: headliner, carpet, Clark's vinyl, package area, door panels, reconditioned dash. A great running 140 engine, new Flaming River steering box. New paint and the body work. Arrow straight, this is a great looking car as well as a great running Corvair. The entire painted area of the car had the rust cut, metal welded in. Photos are available in a thread old enough to see there isn't any deception. You can see that the car was not turned inside out for the body work and since it's a 50 year old car, it's reasonable to think there might be some rust in places not reached unless you do a rotisserie style restoration.

I believe the Corvair community would agree that the above car is worth $12k. Thank you to the dozens of people that have sent messages of support on this issue. All told, they know that we probably broke about even on the investment we made in this vehicle. That doesnt' count the time and care we took. We've been involved in dozens of great transactions, and if you're involved in Corvair rescue, we do run the risk of having a problem such as this one, although we do try very hard to make sure people understand what they're buying.

Lesson learned: If the buyer has a communication barrier, cannot come inspect the car for themselves, and lay out their expectations completely in advance, then DON'T sell the car! Follow your gut instincts folks and Keep them on the road...JTVairs!

[robertto]

If this is your conclusion, if somebody buy a Corvair from jtvairs for more than $12.000 he can not be sure to get a car without massive rustzones and holes, even when it is advertised with "every rust was cut out..."

Ok, I have to live with it.

[SSVairNut]

Yes ...some days you just have to let go and say "sure, that's fine, that is what you should do"

[BIGTWIN]

It's time to stop kicking this dead horse. "Buyer beware". You got some surprizes in your used car. Haven't we all at some point or another? This will eat you up if you don't let it go so just enjoy the car and all the fun stuff that goes with it. It's a great looking car.