62 Monza no lights

[66vairguy]

vairsrule - Note that Clarks Corvair sells the Packard contacts and the plastic housings. A little more per part, but you can just order one contact vs. some online places that have a minimum order, often 100's.

[bbodie52]

is there another way to ground the taillights?

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,293493



Any socket grounding tricks ?

https://www.corvairforum.com/forum/view ... hp?t=13937



1962 Corvair 700 sedan electrical

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/296173-196 ... lectrical/



BAD GROUND? CHASSING A TAIL LIGHT GREMLIN

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... in.754018/

[VairsRule]

joelsplace: Thanks for the suggested fix. I was going to replace the sockets with aftermarket ones (metal, not plastic), but will try this fix first.

Just tested the backup light wire I cobbled together. It's a VERY poorly soldered together piece of junk, but the wire for the right backup light works. So, it was a problem with the old wire for the right side at the spade connector. Note that the bulb needs to be in the fixture when you install the light in the body, or the plug will just fall out (bulb holds it in place). Never noticed that before...

Am headed back to the auto parts store to see if they have the Packard Type 56 spade connectors (doubt it), then to Home Depot to look at the soldering irons/stations they have in-store. Need one that gets hot enough to solder 3 wires together, solder wire onto flat connector and chassis metal, desolder, and also do fine soldering on electronics (need to replace the power plug on a laptop).

[joelsplace]

The ground between the housing and body can have problems also but it is usually easy to clean up and get working.

[VairsRule]

joelsplace: Yeah, I've always managed to get them working well enough not to have to replace the sockets on all my vairs. I wonder why the backup light sockets have a copper sleeve (good idea), and the stop/turn sockets do NOT?

Update on backup lights: The new soldering iron did a good job re-soldering the new backup light wires to the old spade connector. That's the good part. The bad part is that the neither backup light works now with the wire plugged into the harness plug. I verified that the spade connector is all the way in the plug, and used Channelocks to gently push the two sides of the harness plug together, but still no backup lights.
Am getting really tired of this. The engine harness plug is in a very inconvenient location and hard to unplug/plug. Am considering mounting a buss bar with spade connectors on the firewall and doing away with the harness plug. Main downside being inability to disconnect them all in one action.

I was wrong about the resistor wire. It appears to be intact. It's connected to the small plug that runs to the starter (IIRC) on one end, and to the engine harness plug on the other end. This wire has the cloth cover on it, so I'm assuming it's the resistor wire, since this is the only wire I know of that has the cloth cover on a Corvair.

[VairsRule]

Headlights: The headlight units (EM) have a copper ring at the top/middle with two wires running to it. I assume this provides the grounding for all the lights in the headlight unit?

Used a test light to check for power at the trunk harness plug, then went to map each terminal on the plug to the corresponding wire color and purpose, and got a surprise. The plug on my car does NOT MATCH the plug(s) shown in the wiring diagram. I tried to identify which wire color is connected to each terminal on the firewall side plug, but was unable to. They are all crammed together, and everything is mirror image, and the plug is at a funny angle relative to the front/back of the car.

I would pull the plug down into the car to make it easy to map the wires, but it's really stuck in the rubber grommet, which has HUGE lips on both sides. Don't want to damage it trying to pull it out.

So I marked on my drawing which terminal the test light lit up for, and how strong or weak it lit up. Note that the middle/right slot in the plug is not used (no terminal), so there is a total of 7 terminals on these plugs.

I made the following "educated" (LOL) guesses:

1. The one in the center marked "STRONG" is the 16g light green wire that supplies power to the headlights (goes to left headlight first).
2. The one in the bottom/left corner marked "STRONG" is the 20g tan wire that runs to the horn relay (since the horns work).
3. The one in the center/middle marked "WEAK" is the either the 20g dark blue wire that runs to the right parking/turn light, OR the 20g light blue wire that runs to the left parking/turn light. Note that the OTHER center/middle terminal did NOT light the test light at all.

Brad and company, what do you make of this?

[joelsplace]

Have you checked resistance through he headlight dimmer? Common problem. Usually switching it several times will clean up the contacts.

[VairsRule]

Tried toggling the dimmer switch many times, no improvement. When I started, the headlights did not work at all. Then took the headlight switch apart, cleaned all contacts inside and out. Now the headlights work. Don't remember if the high beams work or not (I think so), will check tomorrow.
I unplugged the dimmer switch early on in the troubleshooting process with no improvement, and think I tested for 12 volts in both modes, but may not have.

Will see if high beams work tomorrow and test resistance on dimmer switch. Will report back.

[bbodie52]

When testing a circuit, or a partial circuit, for excessive resistance or for proper continuity between a component and chassis ground, there are times when using the multimeter as an ohmmeter rather than as a voltmeter might be useful. When using it as a voltmeter you are relying on the vehicle's battery to provide circuit testing voltage. Any problems in the circuit between the battery positive terminal and your location in the car could impact the voltage reading. This makes it difficult to isolate a segment of the wiring harness from the rest of the system for testing purposes.

When using the multimeter as an ohmmeter you are relying on an internal battery inside the multimeter to measure the resistance in a circuit. The multimeter is normally calibrated by switching to Ohms (Ω). (You should normally select a low number scale when measuring resistance in a wire or between a component that is supposed to be grounded and chassis ground, where the expectation would be to find a very low resistance). The multimeter is calibrated by touching the two test leads together and adjusting the ohmmeter for a zero setting. You can then test the quality of chassis ground — on a light socket for example — by connecting one test lead to a known good chassis metal contact and the other test lead to the light socket that should be properly grounded. A high resistance or an open condition would tell you that the light socket is not properly grounded.

I thought it might be useful to you and to others who might be following this thread to include a few videos that develops and establishes some "common ground" knowledge, electrical troubleshooting techniques when using a multimeter, and some wiring repair and modification procedures that are used in the automotive world...

131 Car Service and Related Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... zcTTXyMw0i


How To Use a Multimeter - Tutorial Guide - Video 1

How To Use a Multimeter - Test Car Voltage - Video 2

How To Use a Multimeter - Test Car's Ground - Video 3

How To Solder / Heatshrink / Crimp Wires - For Car Install

[VairsRule]

Up until yesterday, I was using the lowest ohms setting on my digital multi meter (the same "cen-tech" as in the how to videos you posted) to test for resistance, and the the 20 volt range to test voltage. Yesterday I used a test light to test (for) voltage, which is very handy. For many years, I used a Radio Shack analog multimeter, but the test lead wires were very thin and constantly always breaking (first they readings would be off, then they would break). I replaced it with a $5 digital multimeter from Harbor Freight (actually got it for free). The analog meter was very convenient for gross resistance measurements. With the digital meter, when measuring resistance, the readings jump up and down A LOT. Should probably get a better quality unit like a Fluke.

The new backup light wire I put together tested good when NOT plugged into the harness plug. For this test, I ran a jumper from the battery positive terminal, and both backup lights lit up bright. With it plugged into the harness plug, neither bulb is lighting up now, and there is no way to get a test probe in there. The extra wire soldered onto the outside of the terminal and the heat shrink tubing take up the whole space where it plugs into the plug. The other side of the harness plug is on very short wires and faces down, no way to get a test probe on any of the terminals on that side of the plug. Very annoying. It's on the frame rail, right next to a carburetor, with no space to work. GM could have made the wires a bit longer on that end and mounted it up higher where it can be got to.

With the multiple problems front and rear, and things alternating between working (or partly working) and not working, am not sure what the troubleshooting steps at this point should be. What did you make of the test results I got on the front harness plug? Suggested process to follow at this point? I mean specific tests to run in a specific order. If not, I will just keep bumbling my way around...

[VairsRule]

What I meant by "With the digital meter, when measuring resistance, the readings jump up and down A LOT." was that when testing circuits on THIS CAR LATELY, the resistance readouts have not been steady in cases where I would expect a steady reading and basically NO RESISTANCE (like the length of a wire with nothing between). Also, I would expect basically ZERO resistance, but get numbers that seem to indicate some resistance, but I don't know if it's just the meter or I really am getting resistance all over the wiring harness. In a case like this one, is there a certain ORDER that I should go through the circuits in to isolate one or more causes like bad grounds, high resistance (due to damaged wiring, corrosion, etc)?

[VairsRule]

Tested the headlights and dimmer switch again. Toggled between low and high beam at least 25 times. Headlights work on high and low beam, but the dimmer switch is not reliable. Every so many times, no lights light up, so will put a new dimmer switch on the list. Don't recall if I've had this one apart before.

Tested the flasher relay outside the car using a jumper and test probe/light. The light goes on, but does not flash on/off, so will add a new signal flasher to my shopping list.

BTW, it's the air cleaner that's up against the engine harness plug, not the carb. Still don't like the way GM handled this.

[VairsRule]

Also verified that the turn signal lever makes the turn signal switch slide back and forth, but did not test the switch yet.

[bbodie52]

I believe that GM only expected the Corvair to be in use for about 10 years or less. I doubt that the materials they used to manufacture the wiring harnesses were expected to have a life span of more than 55 years! Unfortunately, you are facing the prospect of having to dissect the old wiring harness to try to identify faulty wires and terminal contacts and replace them one by one. The only other alternative is a relatively expensive one that involves replacing the aging and faulty wiring harnesses with newly manufactured ones from Clark's or from the vendor listed earlier that Clark's uses.

There are times when a digital test instrument is less appropriate to use than a cheaper multimeter with an analog display. Using a test light or a multimeter with a buzzer to show continuity may be more useful when working on a car. The analog display meter also tends to be damped and averages out their readings to make a more meaningful result than the rapidly flashing digital display on the modern multimeter.

Unfortunately I think you are facing a time-consuming effort to verify every circuit in the car, one segment at a time. For example, you may have to unplug the trunk wiring harness to isolate it from the rest of the car and then carefully test each wire in the harness for continuity. You also need to carefully confirm that each light socket is solidly grounded. You may even have to fabricate a short ground jumper wire between each socket and the car chassis to provide for a ground bypass in place of the original design. Replacing the sockets with new ones may also be an option. Carefully cleaning the metal contacts inside the wiring harness multi-connector and then coating them with dielectric grease may help to improve electrical continuity within the socket and prevent future problems with corrosion.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-D ... ric+grease
Permatex 22058 Dielectric Tune-Up Grease, 3 oz. Tube
Price: $4.94




That aging dimmer switch is probably one of the more dangerous components in the car. I was driving my 1966 Corsa on a dark winding mountain road in North Carolina one night. I pressed the dimmer switch to turn on the high beams, and this resulted in a total blackout! I was driving at about 55 mph and couldn't see anything! I had no headlights at all. Fortunately the low beams came back on when I stabbed at the dimmer switch again. I would recommend replacing your dimmer switch if you suspect that it is faulty at all.

Part number C457: DIMMER SWITCH

Weight: 0 lbs 4 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 84B
Price: $ 15.85


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=84B

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... graygo.y=0


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... graygo.y=0


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... graygo.y=0


Part number C9108: TRUNK HARNESS-61-63 700 & MONZA-CARS & WAGONS

Weight: 2 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 98A
Price: $ 111.60

A possible cheaper option...

40037 1962 PARKING LAMP AND TURN SIGNAL REPAIR KIT - van & truck $49.00
NOTE: REQUIRES CUSTOMER TO REMOVE ORIGINAL SOCKET THAT WAS FACTORY CRIMPED ON HEADLIGHT BUCKET HOUSING

[VairsRule]

Thanks, Brad. It's odd that the new backup light wiring does not work in place, but works fine when connected directly to the battery, and that half of it worked in place before. What can have changed? I found my Belkin test probe light that has a very long and pointy probe. Will see if I can insert it into the harness plug tomorrow and test for voltage. But I know the spade connector is all the way inside, so it must be making contact with the other side of the plug. And the engine still cranks, and headlights work, so power is getting through to the front.

[bbodie52]

» Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:26 pm

...It's odd that the new backup light wiring does not work in place, but works fine when connected directly to the battery, and that half of it worked in place before...

Although I cannot be there to examine your actual wiring, your description makes it sound like there must be a voltage drop somewhere between your reconnect point and the voltage source. But when you bypass the rest of the harness by connecting directly to the battery terminal your new wiring is functional. If it stops working when you connect the wire back to the multi-connector, then the voltage drop must exist internally within the multi-connector or at some point on the other side of the wiring harness as it is routed to the voltage source. A bad wire or a bad connection anywhere in the path between your reconnection point and the battery could be causing a reduction in voltage or an open condition that is preventing the complete circuit from functioning. The trick is to find the location of the high resistance or open condition that is causing the circuit to fail. Testing your wiring by connecting it directly to the battery terminal only proves the quality of your new wiring. But reconnecting that same new wiring back to the original source on the wiring harness, and then having it fail to function, only proves that you have more problems further down the pipe. The wiring you replaced may have indeed been faulty, but then reconnecting the new wiring to the old wiring harness only verifies the poor condition of the wiring harness throughout the car. Sounds like you're facing a complex and time-consuming task to restore the wiring throughout your car to an original working condition. A complete fix may be costly, either in time or money, or both. I am not sure what has caused such extensive deterioration in your Corvair wiring harness. Most aging Corvairs do not suffer from such an extensive breakdown in electrical wiring.