Are prices rising on our beloved cars?

[happydaze]

I think they are rising, but there are so many out there in need of major help that it takes the right vehicle to move the needle. I use Haggerty as my valuation tool when trying to find a fair market price for a top of the charts restored car and a very nice daily driver. You will notice it takes a nice driving and running car to reach the lower standards of their pricing. Good negotiating tool for sure if you read the description and cite condition for your offer. Real world prices too since they monitor Auction prices to show value at the given time.

I bought my 63 Spyder Coupe assuming I could redo a few things - bushings, brakes, shocks/springs and flip it in hunt for a 65 or newer body style for $2100 (original truly rust free and perfect interior- I drove it home but ran poor at best). Now into my 6th month of an all parts off restoration and $4k ish spent on parts (no motor rebuild just carb/turbo). Without a $5k paint job I am not sure I could get $10k. And that folks is how you turn a $12k investment (without labor) into a tough to sell $10k car.

I do feel 5-10 years from now Corvairs will really pop in pricing. Especially the turbo models. I think driveabilty mods on these cars are appreciated and rewarded due to the "stability stigma". Either 100% restored trailer queens or suspension modified - improved cooling- air conditioned - alternator swapped- perfect drivers is where the highest prices lie.

If I were a stock broker Corvairs fall into the Buy all you can and Hold category. Cars like VW bus above are Sell yesterday in my opinion!! The generation that knew these cars as kids/young adults have the money to spend now, but lack the desire to hop in a car with manual steering/brakes and crappy air-conditioning, while being passed by a Prius. People in their 20's-40's want functional cars that handle, haul butt, and are reliable - But Look Old!

I am not the worlds greatest car flipper by any stretch.. But I do buy a car or 2 a year to play around with - Fix up, Drive, and have for sale the day after I buy it for the right price. My Corvair is one of the few for the long haul.

Here is the link to the valuation on My Vair as an example if anyone hasn't seen Haggerty's site. http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/H ... t?vc=94957" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brian

[SyntheticBlnkerFluid]

Simple answer is yes. My dad has Hagerty for insurance and they give a yearly estimate on how much his cars are worth and they quoted him a little north of $20k for his '66 Corsa Convert.

[coleslaw31]

Yeah I had a standard VW bus that had a factory sunroof which was a rare combo. Rusted out no interior engine in pieces and made a good lick off it. I sold it due to the price to even get parts or the sheet metal to fix it and turned around and got into corvairs (i really like air cooled engines) and never regretted it.

[ayrhead]

In regards to the VW... Maybe someone has more money than brains. I could do a lot more with that kind of money than buy a VW...Although it's a beauty, I would be afraid to drive it for fear of scratching it or worse.

[Nashville Chris]

I think for Corvairs only VERY nice ones are commanding high prices. Junk is still junk and probably in the Corvair world the junk will stay cheap.

Not to the people who have rotting shells in their backyard and are watching the auctions on TV. They prorate the value of their junk. For example, a woman in a nearby town has the '64 Greenbrier I sold to her dad ten years ago for $1,000. He drove it home (it was a reliable driver and good restoration candidate), parked it, and filled it with who-knows-what. Now his daughter wants $2,800 for it. It's been sitting there as a storage shed for ten years, and somehow she thinks that has tripled its value. She also has a '64 Monza coupe and '63 Spyder with no engine that have also been sitting in that field for years, and she wants $4,500 for each of them, and the Spyder doesn't even have an engine. Oh, and she even says in her craigslist ad that she refuses to negotiate.

A recent searchtempest result was a rusty '60 sedan restoration candidate sitting outside that the owner wants $9,000 for.

On the bright side, I know of a '66 Corsa coupe shell locally for $200 that I'm considering. And it's really just a shell.

[notched]

My only comment is when the cars become valuable like all the other cars is when people stop driving them because people become afraid to drive them for fear of devaluing them and/or damaging them then. That is when the fun goes out of it. Part of the fun in Corvair ownership has been a reasonably priced car collector car that you can actually drive unlike the Camaros and Mustangs and Chevelles and Corvettes and GTOs. I really don't need anyone else to honor or hold my car in high accord. I also don't need to impress anyone with how much my car is worth. I own it because it is fun and affordable and I like it.
To prove my point you would need to know someone who has one of the above mentioned cars. One of my close friends has a 66 tri power GTO that he has owned since 1971. He is the only in his local club that drives his car regularly. Most of the guys in his club barely take the cars out once a year because they are constantly afraid of something that would affect their value occurring while driving it. Most also only own the car as a status symbol or for bragging right. Screw that!

[happydaze]

I couldn't agree more with Notched, except for the fact that the people - and I am sure we have our purest here as well - enjoy the pursuit of making a better than new car. More power to them. I had for about 6 years a 1964 GTO convertible 4 speed 4bbl car. 1 of 4k made and arguably the "1st muscle car" and I had the Tri Power setup. I daily drove mine and wore the hell out of it. It was a complete rotisserie restored car with a modern look. Boyd Coddington wheels (wish I still had those..)
A rusted out pile of a car goes for $25k. So I understand the lower tier of rarity and stupid money for "special" cars.

Moral of the story was. I couldn't replace 6 years of Joy I received from peoples disbelief that I would 1 drive the car (yes in the rain), park it in a shopping center lot, leave it unlocked, and basically treat it like I stole it. We forget we have insurance, these cars aren't fragile, and people want to see them at a streetlight and not a museum.

Just saw an episode of Chasing Classic Cars last night that showed the owner of the Worlds Oldest and 1st Ferrari produced that is surviving 1947 Spyder Corsa?. The guy drives it to the shows. His quote was along the lines "The car was meant to be driven and needs to be driven, so I drive it. If I mess something up I will fix it."

If your car has headlights, windshield wipers, brakes, runs, and is licensed. Then why would it be on a trailer??

[Nickshu]

Dad had a '65 GTO Tri-power. Wish it was still in the family!

There's an old story about Ferdinand Porsche going to a Porsche concours event and was quoted as saying something like "What a shame, my cars were built to be driven."

[turnert7696]

I remember only a couple years ago finding decent running corvairs in my area for 2-3k. It's getting harder to find a solid one by me for that now. Not impossible, but definitely harder.

[JBroomer]

While I have put my search on hold for the winter, I have recently been toying with the idea of abandoning old cars and just buying a new Mustang convertible and driving and enjoying it every day. When you have finite funds and the prices keep rising (plus the requirement to have a daily driver as well), this strikes me as a reasonable alternative. Considering that even a V6 Mustang has way more get up and go than a vintage V8, plus all the modern conveniences and a warranty.

Not likely what most here want to hear but the with comment above about the middle class being pushed out of the hobby by pricing, this perhaps becomes the viable alternative.

[happydaze]

John-

Sounds like daily driving and performance are your key factors. This can be done in a classic car. Not sure I would personally turn to an air cooled car for that. Plenty of Corvair folks here can tell you how to build a reliable 200hp motor. That and $15k should get you new interior, good paint, and a decent solid vehicle that can check almost every box a V-6 Mustang can. So $20-$25k all in seems reaonable. But honestly risky and no warranty.

In "our" heads the debate is won with passion for old cars. And many of us sacrifice in our daily driver standards for a quality weekend classic car. But there are a million used car options that fit your V-6 Mustang requirements for <$10k. I just sold a 2002 Mercedes E55 AMG that would run circles around a new V-6 Stang for $8k. It had 4 doors! I autocrossed the hell out of it for fun. But it was never the cool car I owned. Those were my 64 Olds convertible and my 63 Corvair. I am however very passionate about cars. They are all cool for some reason. Corvairs are especially cool in my humble opinion. They are so incredibly different. Storied racing history, rear engine, air cooled, and Ralph Nader! Never a dull moment speaking to people about why you own a corvair.

You can grab any 60's muscle car ever made (less Shelby cobra) and eat it's lunch with almost any modern entry level sports car or high end luxury car. Very few cars in the 60's could manage any quarter mile time in the 14's. Now days that is quick, but nothing special.

Logic, warranties, and reliability are not allowed in the conversation. If having something different isn't a high priority. You will end up frustrated with your decision. If you decide you have to have one. There is no more affordable and fun way to get into the hobby than buying a Corvair.

[Dburger]

Around here even prices for PG cars are rising, let alone turbos.

[JBroomer]

@happydaze

Agreed, but then nobody takes notice of a new car sitting at the lights, so I haven't quite quit the search yet. I'm used to driving not so powerful cars. The past included original Minis and a '75 MG Midget. None of which could peel the skin off of rice pudding, as we liked to say.

I love old cars and really enjoy being around others who think the same way. It's really just a comment on the seemingly ever rising cost of that enjoyment against the bank account.

[happydaze]

Agreed John. Hope I didn't sound condescending or rude. I read a few of your posts and saw you have a British car fetishes and realized after much of my post was irrelevant. To you in particular, but not to someone trying to justify the hobby.

After many conversations with my wife over the last 20 years. I have learned there isn't a "Great" way to rationalize the affliction we suffer from.

[JBroomer]

I'm probably going to have settle for a single old car with my wife since I will never get what I've often suggested we really need, a six car garage with storage (for parts, of course) and living quarters above it.


I'm just waiting for March to touch base with a prospect...a '65 Corsa 140/4 speed convertible.

[Gigharborvair]

The prices on Rampsides seem to be really increasing... There were 17 95's at the Seattle Convention, all of them in great condition. Fun to see !