Corvair Forum

Please don't tell me this now. They have my money.

Call them and ask to hold shipment. Then ask what pump part number they are shipping and where it was manufactured.

I still have a pump kit I bought from Clarks in 1995. It got moved to my spares box for my More Door. I will trust that pump more than the same part numbered one in rhe car now.

The Coupe, which was getting the pump kit, is getting the in-tank pump.

My friend John has the Clarks electric fuel pump kit install last year. He just got the Corsa running and had a rich condition. It was track down to too much fuel pressure. Clarks pump is putting out 6 psi. He had to install a fuel pressure regulator just forward of engine main fuel line in well being left rear tire. This soled the problem.

I finally read the info on the Corvair-efi fuel pump for carb engines and I may have an issue with it. The info on the site says pump pressure is 3 - 7 psi. Seeing carbs won't work with over 5 psi, I will have to test it in tank, but out of car to see actual pressure of the pump I got. If it is over 5 psi, I will have to get a Vega pump rated at 5 psi max. Carter has one with 2.5 to 4.5 and I can use their pn to locate one.

I had a call the other day from a guy who had an engine compartment fire from a leaky mechanical fuel pump.

I put up the good fight with them but grew weary. I admire folks like Brizo who are still working with them. I've got at least 2 milk crates full in case I get the hankering again one day.

Internal leaks diluting the engine oil, external leaks with fire danger and too much fuel pressure that overwhelms the carburetors are all potential problems beyond just plain old refusing to pump failure.

The original AC pumps were great but we're about 40 years removed from them.

I hope the Clarks effort is successful, I really do.

For electric pump I gave up on the Airtex E8016S when they were bought out by a big conglomerate and moved manufacturing to China. I've been using Made in USA Facet cylindrical from Pegasus Racing. The British guys love 'em and they're more sensitive to fuel pressure than we are. They're up to about $120.

Well stated Jim and it is where we are now. As time passes other electric fuel pumps may prove to be suitable (there are many types/designs), but at the moment the FACET pump has a good history, is small, uses little power. Only issue I see with them is folks buy the WRONG fuel pressure version. Not a FACET problem, I've seen this in the past with other brands.

IGNORE the lower pressure value in the range, go with the highest pressure value, Or 3 - 4.5PSI means you'll have 4.5PSI pressure. Lower PSI value is for maximum flow that will NOT happen on a Corvair unless the fuel line is CUT.

Lane66Monza wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:14 am There are pros about the low oil pressure switch addition and also the use of a tach signal (no cons to either being used) to control the fuel pump On signal.

I see the tach signal as a nice to have signal, but not much benefit. What causes a loss of a tach signal: bad key switch, loose wire, bad distributor coil or points, either case the engine shuts down and pump shuts down due to loss of tach signal
But if LOP switch was part of the system, pump would have shut down also due to low oil pressure. It more rare to lose a tach signal than oil pressure, in my opinion.

But without the low oil pressure switch in the circuit, if you miss the light on a bright day, one cooked engine. With the switch, pump stops and engine will stop in about 10 seconds at speed due to bowls emptying. Engine will be hurt but not destroyed. You will get the hint of an engine problem when you see speed dropping. Without the LOP switch and you are blissfully cruisin', one ruined engine. Lack of oil pressure cause is either internal or a bad switch. Vega PS64 LOP switch was used in 1.76 million Vegas. I would say very reliable. You can still get a GM labeled today for $20, but Standard price is less than $12, The S956 connector needed for the switch will set you back about $31 at Rock Auto if in stock, otherwise they can range up to $65. Search carefully, if you go this route.

Al,

As always appreciate your wiring diagram and efforts to make such a great upgrade. Thinking out loud a bit on the LOP switch and running while the bowls empty. What would happen if the switch was used to interrupt an ignition relay or the coil wire? Seems that immediate loss of ignition would shorten the run time from 10 seconds to near zero.
Thoughts good man?

Mike

But how would the ignition system know the fuel pump has stopped. No way do I want to tie the the ignition circuit into the fuel pump control circuitry. Too much complication.

2 ways to solve the carb bowls still having fuel after pump has shut off.

1. GET Ted Browns EFI system. Engine immediately shuts off when fuel is lost.

2. Owner of the car puts a 2" red warning light on dash showing fuel pressure is lost. That is because he is not listening to his engine due to loud exhaust or loud music. Engine will slow down fairly rapidly at 60 mph. Gen warning light will come on when engine goes below idle. Hint car is slowing down fairly quickly, if no action is taken by driver. Then the low oil pressure warning light will also come on just before engine goes to full shut-down. Now this is a big hint for the driver to get off the road and see what is going on.

I hope this info helps anyone with the same question.

Lane66Monza wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:22 am But how would the ignition system know the fuel pump has stopped. No way do I want to tie the the ignition circuit into the fuel pump control circuitry. Too much complication.

2 ways to solve the carb bowls still having fuel after pump has shut off.

1. GET Ted Browns EFI system. Engine immediately shuts off when fuel is lost.

2. Owner of the car puts a 2" red warning light on dash showing fuel pressure is lost. That is because he is not listening to his engine due to loud exhaust or loud music. Engine will slow down fairly rapidly at 60 mph. Gen warning light will come on when engine goes below idle. Hint car is slowing down fairly quickly, if no action is taken by driver. Then the low oil pressure warning light will also come on just before engine goes to full shut-down. Now this is a big hint for the driver to get off the road and see what is going on.

I hope this info helps anyone with the same question.

I'm confused by this...Why would we need to "solve the carb bowls still having fuel after pump has shut off"?
What's the issue with the bowls still having fuel in them? You want fuel in the bowls or you'll have to crank it for awhile (with manual pump) to get fuel back in the bowls so it will start and run. Unless you are putting the car away in storage its never an issue, is it?

Fuel pump answer is easy. Wait until Clark's has them figured out or install an electric one.

Although we have had success with an aftermarket manual pump by grinding 1/8" off the stem. The pump looks like it was modeled after a '60 pump which had a longer stem in it? Its too long and breaks the diaphragm and causes the failure. I believe this was a pump we got from Napa. My friends Greenbrier has a few thousand miles on it now with this manual pump and no issues.

I have electric. For safety I used Revolution Electronics fuel pump controller.

What safety function are you getting from the Revolution Electronics fuel pump controller?

I could not find a real safety function with it. Lose rpm and engine dies, yes fuel pump dies also. But you lose oil pressure
and if that was tied in, fuel pump will stop faster. In a wreck, hopefully battery is thrown out of car to shut off engine, if not, engine runs until someone reaches in to turn it off.

But if you lose oil pressure and can't see the warning light on a bright day, the controller is no help. The Vega oil pressure switch takes care of getting pump off line. Hopefully you are driving without noisy exhaust or radio and can hear the engine change to take action. That is what they did in the old days before electric pumps. Listen to engine and watch lights. Didn't have all the distractions new cars have now.

But to each their own on how they try to protect their investment.

I f I can afford it my 66 Coupe will get EFI to solve most issues, except stupid drivers on the road.

The electric fuel pumps I have placed in-service appear to be very reliable and relatively easy to change-out, if necessary. I believe that reliability of the electric fuel pump is greatly improved when a quality fuel filter is placed in-line, between the fuel tank and the pump inlet.

Mounting the pump close to the fuel tank, near the Corvair centerline is somewhat problematic and hazardous if you ever need to install a replacement on the road. Without jack stands it is dangerous to attempt to work under the car while trusting only a jack (hydraulic, scissors jack , etc). Some fuel pump models specify the need for a gravity feed to the pump inlet near the tank, but i found that the Airtex E8251 is a pump designed for marine service, and does not need to be close to the tank. I prefer a mount somewhere above the transaxle, in the firewall area, where it is relatively cool and protected from weather or hazards. I prefer connecting it through an electronic fuel pump controller that cuts off the pump if the engine stalls. A fuel filter in-line between the pump and the tank protects the mechanical components inside the pump from contaminated fuel, which helps to insure a long pump operational life. Gaining access to the pump does require jacking the vehicle and removing a wheel, so I always carry a pair of jackstands in the trunk to support emergency roadside maintenance.

With an electric fuel pump and filter mounted outside of the engine compartment, you can get fancy with fuel line distribution by running the fuel from the pump into a firewall-mounted fuel distribution block. Safe fuel lines can then be run directly to the carburetors — avoiding the fan belt area clutter and hazards. A mechanical fuel pressure gauge could be added to a fuel block outlet, if desired, to monitor the electric fuel pump outlet pressure.









https://revolutionelectronics.com/Produ ... _Pump.html


The troubleshooting instructions on page 2 (shown below) talks about a problem with the fuel pump not shutting off. The illustration on page one shows the diode installation. Tis electronic controller installation is fairly simple, and generally includes adequate wire of the proper wire gauge to facilitate installation.








The material I found below about the inertia activated fuel pump shutoff switch indicates that this switch has a reset button on the top.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... oCZcHw_wcB

Pegasus Part No. 1108 - Fuel Pump Shut-Off Switch - Inertia Activated

Our Inertia Activated Fuel Pump Shut-Off Switch will cut power to an electric fuel pump after an impact of 10 to 12 G's or higher*, reducing the risk of post-crash fires caused by pressurized fuel sprayed from ruptured fuel lines. Resets with a simple push on the top of the switch.

Mr Bodie:

I ask again: "what safety function does the Revolution fuel pump safety controller provides?"

It only gets an RPM signal. You lose the rpm signal, you have lost your coil or the wire to the controller either way the engine shuts down. Nothing really of a safety issue.

It is good it troubleshoots itself to ensure it is wired correctly. It is also nice it primes the carbs for 3 seconds, but all that money for automatic priming and no prevention of damage to engine or help in an accident unless wires are torn from battery or the controller.

It might be nice to get rid of the prime switch, but having an emergency control of the pump by a manual switch is kind of nice when the electronics go TU.

To each their own and their money they spend.

Lane66Monza wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:40 pm What safety function are you getting from the Revolution Electronics fuel pump controller?

I could not find a real safety function with it. Lose rpm and engine dies, yes fuel pump dies also. But you lose oil pressure
and if that was tied in, fuel pump will stop faster. In a wreck, hopefully battery is thrown out of car to shut off engine, if not, engine runs until someone reaches in to turn it off.

But if you lose oil pressure and can't see the warning light on a bright day, the controller is no help. The Vega oil pressure switch takes care of getting pump off line. Hopefully you are driving without noisy exhaust or radio and can hear the engine change to take action. That is what they did in the old days before electric pumps. Listen to engine and watch lights. Didn't have all the distractions new cars have now.

But to each their own on how they try to protect their investment.

I f I can afford it my 66 Coupe will get EFI to solve most issues, except stupid drivers on the road.

It shuts the fuel pump off if the engine stops. Why is that not safe? You would never want the pump to keep running if the engine stops. In many accidents the engine stops especially in a manual transmission car, which mine is. Plus I can work on the car testing electronics with the key on and the pump doesn't run. I do have a way to manually shut off the pump from inside the car.
My exhaust is 128.9db and my stereo is 126.2db.

What Vega oil pressure switch? It automatically shuts off the fuel pump? Isn't that kind of the same thing with the ONLY added benefit of shutting down if for some reason you lose oil pressure while driving? Wouldn't' your way also still keep the pump running in an accident if the motor stays on?

I think this post has gone off the tracks with folks DEFENDING their "opinions".

The Vega oil pressure switch to control the electric fuel pump prevents the fuel pump from running until AFTER the engine starts and the oil pressure comes up. So folks install a "prime" switch which just adds more wiring and complexity. The Vega switch is UGLY in the engine compartment. Just MY

If the engine stalls, as in an accident, the Revolution unit shuts off the fuel pump. That is a GOOD thing. No need for a fuel pump to run if the engine is not running, especially if the fuel hose gets damage!!

The Vega switch provide power to the fuel pump, once oil pressure is enough (3 psi) and then fuel starts. Prime switch is to only prime carb bowls when car has not been driven in a few days and ethanol fuel is being used or a hot engine has boiled the fuel out.

You really need to know the parts and how they are being used. It is not being used like the Vega engineers designed for the Vega.

The PS64 switch, formerly the Vega switch and now the Corvair aftermarket Low Oil Pressure Switch, is not ugly when installed correctly.

This my installation
This is Clark's installation from their kit. Yep, real ugly. Waiting for a breakage in the future when engine is running at speed or owner is in a hurry to change belt and oh crap now this piece of crap in the way. I am hoping some of those items are for the pump, but I don't see the "T" fitting going to the pump install. My kit instructions didn't use that many fittings.

About the Revolution, what happens if the engine doesn't stall in an accident. Many cases of Law Enforcement having to pull battery cables or access the cabin to turn key off to kill engine. Only when battery cables are torn from battery does the engine stop. My

Seen it happen on On Patrol - Live and the old Live PD over the past 8 years.