Starter nose cones break!

[Swngaxl]

We have a '66 110 4 spd that keeps having starter problems. For some reason, the nose cones break. My dad replaced the starter today, it worked fine until he moved the car in the yard a few weeks ago. When he took the starter out, the nose cone wasn't just cracked but broken off. Weird thing is, this is not the first starter on this car to break a nose cone. They seem to work fine for a while, then out of the blue the starter won't turn the engine, and the cone is broken again.

Anyone run into this before? Have any ideas what can cause this?

[davemotohead]

You have a bad flywheel, the rivets come loose and they get out of round and break the starter cone, or your ring gear is coming apart.

[fred bagnall]

By chance have you checked the ring gear . A bad ring gear will lead to broken starter noses. Might be a place to investigate.

[Swngaxl]

My dad told me that the last time this happened, he and another ace mechanic from our club pulled the engine and went through all that, declaring it good. Could have missed something of course. When a ring gear goes bad, what is the failure mode? Do they wobble? Loose teeth? Get out of round?

[davemotohead]

Most times its the flywheel, stock ones last about 60-80 thousand miles and the rivets get lose and it will rattle in neutral and will start breaking the starter nose cones. you need a Bolted or Hot riveted flywheel from corventure Dave.

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[bbodie52]

PRESSURE PLATES

Bad or warped ring gears often break the starter housing. The pressure plate spring (diaphragm) fatigues with use and heat. Also check the ends of the fingers for wear as well as the clutch contact surface.

The large ring gear is welded at several points to the pressure plate or torque converter. This ring gear absorbs a great deal of stress as the engine is cranked. Over time it is possible for one or more welds to fatigue and fracture, which would allow the ring gear to move - especially if the broken ring gear weld happens to be next to the engagement point of the starter.

The broken weld shown in the second pressure plate close-up photo may not be easy to spot. If the weak point on the ring gear happens to position itself adjacent to the starter when the engine stops, the flex of the ring gear may be worse the next time the starter is engaged and the pinion gear hits the ring gear at its weakest point. This can cause the nose of the starter housing to fracture.




How To Check the Whole Ring Gear on a Corvair... Showing Starter Damage (automatic transmission)


Corvair starter gear damaged from bad ring gear?




A faulty ring gear can place stress on the starter housing that could cause it to crack or fracture.


If the ring gear is bad, there is no easy fix. If you determine that the ring gear is faulty, the torque converter or clutch pressure plate must be replaced.

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=134


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=111

[66vairguy]

As other said, flywheel off center due to rivets, ring gear bent or worn, and I'll add one more - incorrect pressure plate to flywheel bolts. They should have a shoulder to center the pressure plate and sometimes folks install bolts that don't have a shoulder.

[ossieoz]

PRESSURE PLATES

Bad or warped ring gears often break the starter housing. The pressure plate spring (diaphragm) fatigues with use and heat. Also check the ends of the fingers for wear as well as the clutch contact surface.

The large ring gear is welded at several points to the pressure plate or torque converter. This ring gear absorbs a great deal of stress as the engine is cranked. Over time it is possible for one or more welds to fatigue and fracture, which would allow the ring gear to move - especially if the broken ring gear weld happens to be next to the engagement point of the starter.

Torque Converter Ring Gear Weld.jpg

The broken weld shown in the second pressure plate close-up photo may not be easy to spot. If the weak point on the ring gear happens to position itself adjacent to the starter when the engine stops, the flex of the ring gear may be worse the next time the starter is engaged and the pinion gear hits the ring gear at its weakest point. This can cause the nose of the starter housing to fracture.




How To Check the Whole Ring Gear on a Corvair... Showing Starter Damage (automatic transmission)


Corvair starter gear damaged from bad ring gear?




A faulty ring gear can place stress on the starter housing that could cause it to crack or fracture.


If the ring gear is bad, there is no easy fix. If you determine that the ring gear is faulty, the torque converter or clutch pressure plate must be replaced.

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=134


http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... N&page=111

Exactly why i broke 3 starter ‘cones’... all of the welds had cracked on my rampside


1961 Greenbrier, 1962 Rampside and 1964 Monza cab.

[Swngaxl]

Thanks for all the help on this, might be on to something! When it was taken down before, it did have a bolted flywheel and some of the parts were replaced. Everything apparently looked fine, but they did not check the runout of the gear, so that we can do. But I have wondered - what is the possibility of this being caused by an electrical issue?

About a year ago, Dad went to connect the battery. When the cable touched the post, the starter engaged. Only did it once, but that was enough to make me think. What if there is an intermittent short in the wiring that allows the starter to engage, if only for a split second, while the engine is running? What would happen while driving, say at 3000 rpm or so? If it was just a blip, you might not notice anything more than you normally do when hitting a bump in the road. Could that break the nose? He did examine the wiring and noticed it is no longer original for the starter connections, someone in the past has done some tape work.

Thanks!

[66vairguy]

The starter has a sprag (over run) clutch by the pinion gear. It's there so the engine can't "over speed" the starter and damage it. A sprag clutch is a one way clutch. Check it to make sure it locks one way, and slips the other. They do go bad.

If the starter ran by just applying power then either the starter pinion gear was already engaged by being locked on the ring due to an offset or you have a wiring issue, bad solenoid, etc.

Basically if the starter is activated while the engine is running it should not break the stater nose, but it will make an embarrassing grinding sound.

[miniman82]

So quick to blame the flywheel...

Check your timing, I had one instance where the timing was so far advanced it kicked back and snapped the starter nose. Which leads me to my next point- if your harmonic balancer (if you have one) has slipped, it’s not reporting TDC accurately anymore and must be replaced.

[64powerglide]

Did you replace the nose cone or put a new starter in it?? Did you replace the solenoid too?