Engine rebuild

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jmikulec
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Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:39 pm

I am trying to get everything together to rebuild a motor from a 64 corvair with the 164 cubic inches. The guy I bought it off of said it was the 110 but further analysis of the engine block numbers say it was the turbo150. I can tell it was because someone drilled holes in the engine shroud for the carb choke coils. What would be the best way to go here?

jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:44 pm

The block number is "T0602YR"
The head number is "3856638"

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bbodie52
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by bbodie52 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:10 am

jmikulec wrote:The block number is "T0602YR"
The head number is "3856638"
T0602YR
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T = Tonawanda, New York (GM Tonawanda Engine Plant)
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/comp ... wanda.html
0602 = Engine manufacturing date (month and date). June 2nd.
YR 1962-1964 Corvair Spyder 150 hp Turbocharged engine, Manual Transmission

Cylinder Head 3856638: 1964 150 hp 164 CI turbocharged engine with 8.00:1 Compression Ratio

It would seem to be a 150 hp turbo engine with the turbocharger removed. There is a part number on the side of the distributor housing. You should check that to see what distributor you have.

Image

According to the attached 1964 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs, the high performance 110 hp and the 150 hp turbocharged engine were both fitted with the same 340 degree camshaft.

If you have the correct 110 hp distributor with vacuum advance, and if someone obtained the correct Rochester carburetors, fitted a vacuum balance tube and the correct Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system plumbing, and fitted the needed automatic choke heat-sensing coils to the heads, you would have a 110 hp engine with a low 8.0:1 compression ratio, instead of the normal 9.25:1 compression ratio found in the 110 hp engine. The lower compression ratio coupled with a 110 hp camshaft would produce something like a 100 hp engine that happily runs on Regular low-octane gas. The crankshaft should be fitted with a harmonic balancer.

Basically, from the cylinders down, the 110 hp and 150 hp engines in 1964 were the same. If you were to fit a pair of heads from a true 110 hp 1964 engine, along with the correct distributor, vacuum balance tube, PCV system, carburetors and air cleaner assembly, you would have a 110 hp engine.

(If you were to decide to pull the turbo heads and sell them, and replace them with 110 hp heads, you should realize that the outside diameter o the 1964 cylinder barrels (the part that inserts into the heads) is 3-3/4". 1965-1969 cylinder barrels have larger outside diameter of 3-13/16", so for the heads to fit correctly to your 1964 cylinder barrels you would need true 1964 110 hp heads — P/N: 3886257, 3819876, 3856631, or 3856632).
Attachments
CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers.PDF
CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers
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1964 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf
1964 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs
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Brad Bodie
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jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:21 am

I have always wanted to build a turbo engine. If anyone has cheap parts for a turbo engine please contact me. I will check around for turbo parts

jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:35 pm

What cam could I use on this engine to get better results?


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terribleted
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by terribleted » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:46 pm

Can choice all depends on what engine you are building. Cheap parts for a Corvair engine....wish the was such a thing.
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jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Daily driver no drag racer just for driving on the street


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terribleted
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by terribleted » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:56 pm

Yes but turbo or non turbo?

For all around dependability find some 64 110HP heads to mate with your existing 64 lower end. Pair with a mild overbore, and a GM 304 grind, or Clark's 260/or 270, or Otto Parts OT-10/or OT-20 and drive to your hearts content. Simple efficient and durable. Do this and forget about expensive turbo parts and possible tinkersome carburation. Do not forget to see what distributor you have (a turbo dizzy with a vacuum retard is not what you want), you would need a proper 110HP distributor or suitable replacement for proper function.

Do not be surprised if costs run up to $3000 or more for new cylinders, pistons, cam and gear, lifters, bearings, reconditioned rods and crank, headwork etc. for any full Corvair engine rebuild.

If you plan on re-using your existing pistons and cylinders your costs will be less and you must use 64 only 110 heads. If you will buy new and cylinders (65 on) you could use the later 65 on style cylinders and then find 65 or later (non smog) 110 heads to use. The 64 model engines lower end is the same as the 65 on engines including the rods and pistons. The 64 cylinders and heads are 64 only (the heads will fit 64 and earlier engines but not fit 65 on cylinders).
Last edited by terribleted on Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bbodie52
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:35 pm

:goodpost:

Your comments seem to point to the desire for an economical rebuild that will be of relatively low cost to accomplish. A turbocharged engine will never be that. The cost for the relatively rare components will be higher, and if you successfully build a turbocharged 164 CI engine (150 or 180 hp, depending on the turbocharger and carburetor) you will end up with an engine that is somewhat temperamental to keep tuned, gets relatively poor gas mileage when compared to a normally aspirated Corvair engine, and demands expensive Premium gasoline.

A normally aspirated 110 hp engine, possibly fitted with a new electronic breakerless Stinger distributor from Performance Corvair https://www.perfvair.com/stinger-ignition-distributors/, or alternately a rebuilt Corvair distributor with a 110 hp centrifugal advance and perhaps a Pertronix or Crane Cams breakerless ignition system http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=74 will provide you with a solid, reliable street engine that should get decent gas mileage and may even tolerate Regular fuel.

Just to clarify… All 1964 and later Corvair engines have the same 164 CI engine displacement, with the same stroke and the same piston bore. However, the outside diameter of the cylinder barrels (the portion that inserts into the cylinder head and mates with the head gasket) remained at 3-3/4 inches for the 1964 cylinder barrels (the same outside diameter that was used in all Corvair engines back to 1960). In 1965 this outside diameter for all cylinder barrels was increased to 3-13/16 inches, which slightly increased the mating surface between the cylinder barrel and the cylinder head. That is why it is necessary to match 1964 cylinder barrels with 1964 cylinder heads (which are properly notched for clearance with the 164 CI crankshaft), even though the piston bore and engine displacement is the same as the later 1965-1969 110 hp engines. The 1965 and later cylinder barrels will only mate properly with 1965 and later cylinder heads.

You might consider selling the 150 hp turbocharged heads on eBay, to help offset the cost of obtaining 110 hp cylinder heads with the higher 9:1 compression ratio that will provide better performance for a normally aspirated two carburetor engine. But if you were to purchase 110 hp cylinder heads from a 1965 and later engine, it would be necessary to obtain cylinder barrels that will match the heads. (See the Clark's Corvair Parts catalog section beginning on page 23A for more information on cylinder barrels, pistons, core exchange, etc.)

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... w_page=23A
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Brad Bodie
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jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 am

If I were to get the Isky 260 cam would that make the compression higher since that cam is rated at 9.5:1


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dave t
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by dave t » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:31 pm

The Isky 260 cam is good. Close to stock. I had one in my 110 van and it did me well. The cam gear was installed wrong and slipped. I replaced it with a 270 and saw a considerable difference in power throughout the power curve but kept the smooth drivability. I would not go back to a 260. The Otto OT10 is similar to the 260. OT20 is simular to the 270.both are great choices but Isky is cheaper direct from the Isky website.
Any Isky grind is the same price. You can save $ by getting a reground cam but I prefer new billit for the small extra $. It is highly recommend that you have the new cam gear installed by someone who has done it before. It is easy to do it wrong. Also always install new lifters with a new cam.
Just my 2 cents worth.

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funvairs
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by funvairs » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:49 pm

No, a camshaft will not raise or lower the compression ratio
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terribleted
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by terribleted » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:30 pm

jmikulec wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 am
If I were to get the Isky 260 cam would that make the compression higher since that cam is rated at 9.5:1


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Compression ratio in our engines is pretty much a factor of the cylinder head combustion chamber shape. To make large changes means big modifications or using different heads. The issue in your case is Turbo heads. They are set up for low initial compression so the cylinder pressure can safely rise when the turbo is active. The problem is they will not perform particularly well with carbs because the compression ratio is so low with no boost. The simple solution is to go with different heads for use with carbs. Your thinking about camshafts may not be necessary unless you just want to go that far. The 150 Turbo and 64 110 HP engines used the same #891 cam. If the lower end is good you could leave it alone?
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jmikulec
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by jmikulec » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:02 pm

Ok if I find a 65-9 engine what parts can I use off this 64 engine?


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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by terribleted » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:04 pm

We have been trying to explain. Your engine is the same as a 65-69 110HP engine except the cylinders and heads. When they increased the engines from 145 to 164 cubic inch displacement for 1964 they made the crank throws longer, bored the cylinders larger, used different pistons and used cylinders relieved at the bottom so the longer crank throws would not hit them. The cylinders remained the same diameter at the head end as they were previously. The cylinder heads had different shaping of the combustion chambers, but retained the same cylinder insert diameter as the 145 CI engine. In 1965 they made new cylinders that were larger in diameter at the top. Other then that the rest of the engine is pretty much unchanged. So you can not mount 64 heads to 65 cylinders the cylinders are too large to fit into the heads. You also can not use 65 heads on 64 cylinders as the holes in the heads are too large in diameter to properly fit the smaller 64 cylinders. I hope this helps. You can also use all the external parts you have on any engine except distributor which will fit and operate but the distributor should be matched to heads, and the induction system...2 carbs, 4 carbs, or turbo should match the application as well. 95 HP use 95 HP dizzy...110 HP use 110HP dizzy...140 HP 4 carb engine use 140 HP dizzy and turbo use turbo dizzy.
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martyscarr
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Re: Engine rebuild

Unread post by martyscarr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:48 pm

When they increased the engines from 145 to 164 cubic inch displacement for 1964 they made the crank throws longer, bored the cylinders larger.....

IIRC, the only cylinder bore increase occured when they went from the 1960 140 cubic inch engine to the 1961 145 cubic inch engine. The bore was increased by 1/16" to make it 145 cubic inches. The extra 19 cubic inches gained in 1964 was due to the change in stroke from 2.6 to 2.9375. The 1964 and later engines all had the 3 7/16" bore same as the 61-63 engines. The 65-69 cylinder do have a thicker cylinder wall than the earlier engines.

I have heard the reason for the engine size increase from 140 to 145 cubic inches was so that Chevy could brag that the Corvair engine was bigger than the 144 cubic inch Falcon, I dont' know if that's true or not but why would only increase your bore by 1/16" for 5 cubic inches? Anyone?

HTH
Marty Scarr

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