Considering purchasing a 62 Corvair

[8888]

Hey folks, I an considering purchase of a 1962 Corvair Monza 2 door. When i was growing up, my mom had a white 63 Monza ragtop that was traded for a 66 Marina Blue ragtop that she had until approximately 1983. they sold it when I was away at school and bought a Ford Escort, of all things.

I've always wanted a Corvair and having recently grown tired of air cooled VW's, I started looking for one.

Being from Ohio and remembering how bad mom's 66 rotted out even with only 38k miles when they sold it, I've put a priority on trying to find one from somewhere out of the rust belt and I MUST have a manual transmission. I just had this 1962 turn up on Craigslist, here is the ad:

1962 Corvair Monza, 2 door sedan, Auto is totally intact, doors are solid and no rust through the body, radio, Hub caps, Cigarette Lighter, floor mats, floor jack, original hub caps and original book are with the car, Standard transmission. Car purchased from original owner but has not been driven for over 15 years. It has been stored in an attached garage in Virginia.

I sent the seller an email and here are the additional details provided:

I am a Real Estate Broker and took this car in as part of my fee. It is a one owner from a high school girl but has never been driven for 15 plus years. garage kept thought body doors etc are real solid, needs painted. I have original book, jack and hub caps which is pretty important Need any more info please contact me Thanks for the inquiry

And here are the photos, he said the car was back in a garage and low light but there is a little to be seen here, I guess:











Nice 70's era floor treatment, isn't it?

It appears to be Nassau Blue? That's a nice color, I don't recall seeing a lot of them that color and I am old enough to remember when Corvairs were common. I remember most being white, red, or maybe that turquoise color, but I could be wrong.

I've seen in other posts here that people can tell a lot by looking at the photos, so I thought I would see what you guys see here.

I have printed the checklists for pre purchase inspection and also did a search to find what is required to bring one back after sitting. I've pulled aircooled VW engines apart after sitting outside in fields for 25 years and they seem to survive that just fine. then again, I just pulled a 1948 Ford 8N tractor out of a barn and it took an automatic transmission fluid/acetone cocktail to break that one loose. It's fine now. With a car, it's probably a case of whether there was gas in it when parked and whether the clutch is stuck. We can assume the brakes are shot.

After having owned 100+ cars over the years, I'm pretty good at spotting rust, repaints, and bondo work so I think I'll be good there. Especially with the assistance of that excellent guide I found on here.

I'm guessing that most of the mechanical parts I'll need are still available? Expensive in comparison to parts for "regular" cars?

I read that the later models added a transverse leaf spring out back and a sway bar up front, can these be added to the 62? I did see the later magnesium fan would fit earlier models, are they hard to find?

Any idea on what one like this might be worth once painted and mechanically gone through, assuming it actually is rust free? Values are all over the place on Craigslist.

I plan on looking at it tonight on the way home from work, any comments in the meantime would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

[cad-kid]

Welcome! There are a few great Corvair suppliers that have all the mechanical parts to get the car roadworthy. Check out Clarks Corvair for an idea http://www.corvair.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keep us posted.

[Nickshu]

You need to inspect the car up close and personal. "Rust free" is almost a myth in an original car. More question of how much rust and where! If you are not near the location maybe someone w/ Corvair knowledge can go check it out for you.

[8888]

You need to inspect the car up close and personal. "Rust free" is almost a myth in an original car. More question of how much rust and where! If you are not near the location maybe someone w/ Corvair knowledge can go check it out for you.

Thanks for the reply. I'm 15 minutes away so I can go see it, have arranged to do so tomorrow night on the way home. I have been dealing with VW air cooleds for years so I know rust free is usually a myth. I currently have a 72 VW bus from South Carolina with a hole in the front floor so even southern sheet metal isn't immune.

I've been doing a lot of reading and the battery tray seems to be a trouble spot and this one seems to look pretty good. I'll be optimistic until I see one way or another, but the backstory means it has to be better than an Ohio car.

See anything good/bad about the engine?

The trim around the headlights and the bumpers seem to be pretty good.

[Nickshu]

It's over 50 years old and a non-galvanized body so rust can really be anywhere. Back of the wheel wells, the rocker seam below the back edge of the doors, yes battery box, trunk floor, driver/passenger floors, front suspension crossmembers are common areas. Worth taking a magnet for the poor-mans bondo detector, or pickup a $20 paint thickness detector off Amazon....amazing how good you can make bad body work look. As for the engine, if it turns over, good. If not, bad. Once you get it home you can to compression and leakdown tests to see roughly where you are at. 3/4" socket on the balancer bolt turn clockwise (opposite of rotation but at least you won't be loosening the bolt and can tell if it's seized or not).

If you collect all the numbers off the car and post them here we can decode them to see what's what. Body tag, VIN, Engine code, Trans code, Diff code, Distributor code, Carb codes, etc. Cyl head codes would be nice but you have to remove a couple bolts and bend back the engine tin to see them. Drivers side is at the front of the head, passenger's side at the rear. Engine case code is on the back of the case next to the base of the oil filler tube. Trans/diff codes are on the bottom edges of the drivers side. Not sure on the carb codes, I only know the turbo carbs well.

Again the car is 50+ years old, most history "stories" are just stories (one owner, all original, etc...yeah right I don't believe it until I verify myself), many things could have been done, swapped out, etc over the years. Engine swaps, cyl head swaps, adding/removing options, etc.

[8888]

It's over 50 years old and a non-galvanized body so rust can really be anywhere. Back of the wheel wells, the rocker seam below the back edge of the doors, yes battery box, trunk floor, driver/passenger floors, front suspension crossmembers are common areas. Worth taking a magnet for the poor-mans bondo detector, or pickup a $20 paint thickness detector off Amazon....amazing how good you can make bad body work look. As for the engine, if it turns over, good. If not, bad. Once you get it home you can to compression and leakdown tests to see roughly where you are at. 3/4" socket on the balancer bolt turn clockwise (opposite of rotation but at least you won't be loosening the bolt and can tell if it's seized or not).

If you collect all the numbers off the car and post them here we can decode them to see what's what. Body tag, VIN, Engine code, Trans code, Diff code, Distributor code, Carb codes, etc. Cyl head codes would be nice but you have to remove a couple bolts and bend back the engine tin to see them. Drivers side is at the front of the head, passenger's side at the rear. Engine case code is on the back of the case next to the base of the oil filler tube. Trans/diff codes are on the bottom edges of the drivers side. Not sure on the carb codes, I only know the turbo carbs well.

Again the car is 50+ years old, most history "stories" are just stories (one owner, all original, etc...yeah right I don't believe it until I verify myself), many things could have been done, swapped out, etc over the years. Engine swaps, cyl head swaps, adding/removing options, etc.

Thanks for the reply.

I have a magnet stuck to the inside of my truck door for that exact reason, didn't know the paint thickness gauges had gotten so affordable. I understand the rest of what you are saying about the stories. Wasn't it Reagan that said "Trust, but verify?" the title may help or it may not.

All I know now is that I'm intrigued enough to take a different route home and have a look, especially since it is a manual rather than an automatic.

I'll pack the socket and breaker, I'm a little leary of using it on a long dormant flat engine but my VW aircooleds seem to handle long periods of sitting without the rings sticking to the cylinder bores. I'll play that one by ear, if the rest of the car looks legit I might just see if it moves slightly.

[Nickshu]

Here ya go, this one is $25 and will probably work OK to find bondo, better ones are around $80, still not too bad.

http://www.amazon.com/Generic-Portable- ... ness+gauge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just put it in gear and rock it to see if the engine turns a little. Get us pics of all the numbers and we can decode for you. Good luck!!

[bbodie52]

Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

Except for the psychedelic carpet, everything appears to be intact and stock in the photos. (The oil dipstick seems a bit tall). This could be a barn find in good condition, if it is truly rust and body rot free, and you sound like you have a good head for checking into that critical item.

This link will provide you with several useful websites that will provide you with technical references and the critical Corvair suppliers. Clark's Corvair Parts in particular should inspire you. Just browse through their online catalog. Click on any part number to reveal pricing and availability. Clark's makes just about all mechanical restoration possible. The online video tour will tell you a lot, if you want to spend some time and are entertained by that kind of thing. (Highly recommended!)


Common and Useful Corvair Websites

Corvair Forum viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007

With the 1962 model year design stability began to creep into the Corvair. 1960 had something of a "prototype" personality, and many engineering changes appeared in 1961. 1961 still had an early design distributor, a manual choke (the only year for that), a master cylinder that went away in 1962, etc. I did notice that this 1962 Corvair engine has a PCV system. Most 1960-1962 Corvairs used a road draft tube for crankcase breathing, and the PCV system became firmly entrenched in 1963. But if your 1962 was a late bloomer in that model year, it is possible that the engine is really the original and it was one of the first to be fitted with a PCV system. (There was a lot of engineering "development" at GM during 1962-1969 as GM engineers struggled to deal with federal and state SMOG laws and government bureaucrats. The emissions control changes were phased in to production when ready — or not!) In any case, a PCV system is generally better than the road draft tube, and helped to reduce crankcase and oil contamination by doing a better job of removing fumes and piston blow-by.

It may be possible to attach a front anti-sway bar if you transfer the needed components and associated attachment points. The rear transverse leaf spring is more difficult. It was unique to the 1964 model year and had unique attachment points on the differential case and suspension. The changes were an interim attempt to counter the negative publicity brought on by Ralph Nader and his book, but by 1965 the entire car body and rear suspension was redesigned. The 1965 rear suspension was a adaptation of the design found in the Corvette Stingray, and the Volkswagen-style rear swing axle suspension design was abandoned. I have driven and owned several 1962-1963 Corvairs that lacked these suspension components, and I was quite happy with those cars.





13" tires are increasingly obsolete, and even 14" tires are becoming more-rare. An upgrade of the 1962 suspension to fit 14" or larger rims and tires that represent modern design and engineering advances can pay big benefits in handling and braking improvements. I would recommend reading through the following article...

Sizing Corvair Wheels and Tires

http://autoxer.skiblack.com/tires.html

If you buy this car, I would include a careful inspection of the parking brake and clutch cables and pulleys. Corvair Powerglide transmissions don't have a PARK position, so they rely totally on the emergency brake to keep the car from rolling away, but at least with a manual transmission you have the option of leaving it in gear when parked (I always do). But a broken clutch cable is a PITA, so I would recommend putting in a new cable and keeping the old one (if it isn't frayed) as an emergency spare in the trunk.

In your stem to stern inspection, check the steering linkage — particularly the rubber bushing in the pitman arm. They tend to rot and fade away. I had one with nothing but a center bolt and the steel portion intact, and a big air gap between the two. Also, flush the brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air, which promotes rust and corrosion in the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and steel brake lines. It also lowers the boiling point of the aging brake fluid, which can mean an early fade of the brakes if the fluid gets hot.

The magnesium cooling fan is a good add-on, as it greatly reduces fan belt stress. The 1964 fan fits the 1962 hub correctly. Magnesium blowers from 1965 and later will not fit correctly and may require a replacement hub and bearing to match. The Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania is probably a good source, as they have a very large inventory of used parts and good knowledge to go with it.

http://www.corvairranch.com/



The information below pertains to the Interstate battery line that fits the limited, odd sized battery box area in Early Model Corvairs. Feedback I've heard from buyers of the Interstate battery line seems to indicate that this brand is a quality product.

If you need a new battery, the odd size and shape of the EM battery box might confuse things a bit. Clark's charges quite a bit for a battery that is similar in appearance to the originals...

Part number C12541: 61-64 CAR & 61-65 FC SCRIPT BATTERY *1960 SEE C13056

Weight: 30 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 79
Price: $ 262.00

But there are some other choices that will fit, will provide better service, are locally available, and cost less. The battery information below has proven to provide a good fit in the standard early model Corvair (1961-1964) battery box.

Here is a battery tip for early model Corvairs like yours that may help you to get an affordable battery for your early Corvair. Be sure to compare the battery dimensions with the available battery space in your Corvair. The dealer catalogs and references are unlikely to tell them if this battery will fit your car...

In my EM i ran a Interstate 51 battery, might have been a 51R can't remember off the top of my head. its a honda civic batter, its small so it fits in there, but it doesnt fill in the whole space. worked perfectly fine for me. cranked everytime, never let me down

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... +++500+CCA

MEGA-TRON 51-R AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY 75 MONTHS 500 CCA

Get long life and premium performance with Interstate Batteries' Mega-Tron 51R. With 24-months free replacement and five-year performance, this 500 CCA automotive battery will meet or exceed your vehicle's starting requirements in any hot to moderate climate.

Sugg Retail Price: $107.95
List Price: $129.95
Dealer prices will vary

Product ID: MT-51R
Amps: 625
Cranking Amps: 625
Cold Cranking Amps: 500
Voltage: 12
Termination: A
Weight: 27.9
Width: 5.13
Length: 9.38
Height: 8.88
Plates: 24
WET/DRY: W

Here is some additional info on the use of the Interstate 51 battery...

you have to make sure your tie down is tight or it will slide side to side. or you can make some plastic pieces to wedge it into shape. but interstate are strong good batteries. when i blew the motor up i had the lights on and the interior light on for almost a hour and when i went to start it up the next day it cranked right over

It appears that the only difference between the Interstate MT-51R and the MT-51 is the location of the positive and negative battery terminals...

MEGA-TRON 51-R AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY 75 MONTHS 500 CCA
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... +++500+CCA


MEGA-TRON 51 AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY FIVE-YEAR PERFORMANCE 500 CCA
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... L4%2f1.3L)


As shown in the picture below, the correct battery appears to be the Interstate MT-51R, which places the positive terminal correctly on the right when the battery is placed in the battery area with the terminals facing the engine.

Whenever the battery is disconnected from the vehicle for any reason the polarization procedure should be performed.

The recommendation on how to polarize a charging system is the following: After the installation of a battery, generator or voltage regulator follow these procedures. The terminals on the voltage regulator are labeled with letters and this is where you will do the polarizing procedure. Both of the components will have battery power so do not start the vehicle or turn on the ignition switch before polarizing them. You will need a small piece of wire fourteen or sixteen gauge with alligator clips on the ends. Find the "Batt" terminal on the regulator and attach one of the alligator clips, find the "Armature" terminal and touch the terminal with the other alligator clip. You can touch the terminals a few times and it will produce a soft light spark.

Under no circumstances touch the "Field" terminal or any other part of the regulator or you could damage the regulator.

http://www.vv.corvair.org/pipermail/vir ... 13475.html

What you want to do is polarize the generator. If in fact it ran with reverse polarity, everything should be fine after this process. You should not have damaged anything yet.

With key off, use a piece of 14 gage or larger wire to jump between the battery and armature terminals of the voltage regulator. I am at work without a shop manual, so I forget the actual writing on the terminals. BUT, it is the top and middle terminal on Corvairs (with the regulator mounted stock position, red wires on top terminal).

It will spark! Hold for 1 or 2 seconds. The wire may also get warm, be prepared.

Start engine again and check for red light going out.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO POLARIZE A NEW GENERATOR BY FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURES IN THE CORVAIR SHOP MANUAL. THIS PROCEDURE IS DESCRIBED ON PAGE 8-18 OF THE ATTACHED SHOP MANUAL SECTION. This polarizing procedure applies ONLY to vehicles equipped with a GENERATOR. It does not apply to vehicles equipped with an alternator.





When working on the Corvair engine, you will need to develop good habits with regard to working with aluminum components. Much of the Corvair engine was manufactured using aluminum, which is a relatively soft and easily damaged material. Bolts that screw into aluminum threads should be carefully threaded by hand to avoid the possibility of cross-threading. The use of anti-seize compound to coat the threads is recommended. A torque wrench should be utilized to properly tighten all fasteners using specifications listed in the Corvair shop manual. This will help you to avoid damaging any threads in the Corvair engine.

All suspension components should be examined. Ball joints and other front suspension components with grease fittings should be lubricated. Front wheel bearings should be cleaned, inspected, repacked and adjusted. With regard to the rear axle bearings (which are difficult to maintain and service, and are often neglected), here's a quote from the Clark's Corvair Parts catalog…

REAR AXLE (WHEEL) BEARINGS — 1960-1964 CARS

The rear axle bearings are probably the most dangerous part of the whole car. It is not uncommon for the axle shaft to pull right out. In some cases the axle shaft just worked out and others the bearing has failed. The 1965-69 style fixed this but people with the earlier style should not ignore any possible bearing noises!

Rear axle universal joints also tend to be neglected — especially if they are not equipped with grease fittings. These also should be inspected and serviced or replaced, if needed.

[8888]

Good morning Brad,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I spent some time yesterday browsing other posts in the forum and found some of your other responses in other threads as well.

With regards to aluminum engines and crossthreading, I currently have (and am selling) a 67 VW beetle and 72 VW bus, both aircooled, and they have the same issues with soft materials. I finger start everything and if it doesn't thread in with fingers, I look for why.

I'm going to assume everything that can degrade on this car will need replacing. I've always had the mindset that mechanical stuff can be fixed, but rust never really goes away. It just comes back somewhere else so if this car really is rust free and the engine is free, that may make it worth attempting. He wants a lot for it ($3,900) but what he put in the ad and what he will take may be two different things. It comes down to what I'll give and what he'll take, like any other transaction.

My concern would be how much I would have in it and what it would be worth when I am done with it. Hagerty only goes down to a 4 and that is a driver, this isn't a driver.

And the other thing that I don't know is the history. I've learned the current owner is 85 and used to restore cars, and he planned on doing this one but decided not to. Hopefully he knows a little more but I doubt it. The odo shows 27k in the photo, I have to assume that's at least 127k and that's a lot for an aircooled in VW world. The guy said in the ad it was a one owner he purchased from a high school girl and it has been in storage for 15 years. Looking at the carpets, I believe the high school girl part but it's 2015 and 15 years goes back to 2000. What happened between 1962 and 2000? That's a long time to be in high school, and more importantly, why was it parked? Engine blown?

So there are lots of questions about all of this, and if it was less money then it would be less difficult of a decision. I may go there and find a lot of rust and that will make the decision easy. It's on the way home and pretty intriging so I want to have a look, I should know tonight and will report back tomorrow either way.

Thanks

[8888]

**NOTE - this is a 2 part post, so if it seems weird, that is why. One part was written last night but had to be postponed because my wife spilled a beer in the cable modem. By the time we finished with the hair dryer and revived it, I realized I had forgotten the camera upload cable and college football was on. I looked up the codes this morning and finished the post**

Well, I went to look at it on the way home. As soon as I actually saw it, I knew it wasn't what I was after. Not nearly as original as I hoped, I'm pretty sure it had been repainted. there was a lot of weathering on the hood and the trunk and some areas with no paint on the top. More on that later.

I pulled the battery tray and there was a hole rusted through under that.

There were a few long thin areas in the front bulkhead/trunk area area with the gray trunk paint that had been painted over with what appeared to be roofing tar. Not sure if it was rust through or just cracks in the trunk paint but it didn't look good.

A large area of the floor appeared to have been patched under the front seat with flat sheet stock, again coated with roofing tar. The ribbing in the floor pan on each side of the patch was rusted enough that I suspect it would perforate if I pushed on it. It looked good in the rocker panels and in the seams behind the doors but there was enough visible underneath that I suspected there was a lot more elsewhere. I didn't even bother with the magnet.

The top of the back seat was completely weathered and blown out.

The metal part of the doors on the inside were a light silverish blue metallic and appeared to have some runs in the paint. Sort of the same color as the seats. I thought it would be dark blue like the dashboard but it was not.

There appeared to be some bondo in the area in the valley with the trunk weatherstripping above the headlights and definitely some in the panel with the grille below the rear bumper. I didn't like to see that, it usually means there's more bondo lurking elsewhere, I would much rather have seen rust on original paint.

I was really uncertain about the paint color. There was a lot of the dark blue everywhere I looked but the area where the spare tire sat had rubbed away some paint was white. The area inside of the front hood opening where the weatherstripping is mounted had a long area where the paint had chipped away and that was white. There was also an area on the trunk that appeared to maybe be white and the area on the top where the paint was missing seemed to have a ring of white under the blue. I read somewhere on here the primer on these was dark red or maybe green?

The underside of the front hood was really nice but seemed lighter than Nassau Blue should be, certainly lighter than the rest of the car.

It looked like someone had done a really thorough blue repaint on a white car but the tag in the engine compartment will tell us.

There were some nice touches like the original washer fluid bottle still being there but there was not enough nice to offset but cosmetic stuff that disturbed me.

There was also a huge puddle of oil on the floor below the engine.

He said it had brakes when rolled off of the trailer, but brakes were the least of my worries.

All things considered, if it was $900 instead of $3900 I might take the risk. But I see way too many red flags with this one for the money involved.

I did take photos of the tag in the rear engine compartment and the plate on the door frame. Those are included below:



62 = 1962
09 = 900
27 = Coupe
WR= Willow Run
more later



This must be the actual VIN? I remember a plate like this from my 66 C-10 and this is what was referenced when the out of state inspection was done. You can see where it was taped off and a few white chips in the doorjamb so you can see why I thought it was white. however, there was so much blue everywhere I was really surprised it had been repainted. They must have taken the car apart to do it, which scares me. I did that once on a Chevette after I wrecked it years ago, painted it a completely different color while it was apart.

2 = 1962
09 = 900
27 = Coupe
W = Willow Run
remainder are sequential build numbers

Anyway, I have been checking out all of the threads in here the last few days and all things considered, I think I would rather have a LM 4 speed coupe. A Corsa if I can find a good one, a Monza if I can't. I drove mom's 66 a lot, in fact I took my drivers test in it, and I recall it drove really well. I like the design a lot better and the suspension and wheel options seem to be much better than the EM.

So....I should be selling the 67 beetle and the 72 bus in the coming week so I'll have some money to work with and I'll see what's out there.

Thanks for the input.

[8888]

Okay, I find that paint 936 is Ermine White so I was right and it was white at one point and someone did a really thorough repaint at some point.

-2 after the 936 means blue interior paint? I need to find a color chip blue, I definitely saw runs in the interior door paint and it was much lighter than the dashboard paint.

Trim 732 is blue, that must be the seats.

A = heater
H = padded dash
J = tinted windshield
O = manual transmission

More as I find it.

[Nickshu]

Sounds like a good choice to pass on this one. As someone who bought a nice "driver" that turned out to be a rust bucket I've been there/done that (see restoration thread). You will have to be a lot more careful with an LM car, they are much more prone to rust and were built with much thinner gauge steel than the EM cars. There is a PDF out there on the internet you can google, it's a Corvair buyers guide/inspection guide written for LM cars. Would be a good reference for your LM search.

[8888]

Sounds like a good choice to pass on this one. As someone who bought a nice "driver" that turned out to be a rust bucket I've been there/done that (see restoration thread). You will have to be a lot more careful with an LM car, they are much more prone to rust and were built with much thinner gauge steel than the EM cars. There is a PDF out there on the internet you can google, it's a Corvair buyers guide/inspection guide written for LM cars. Would be a good reference for your LM search.

Thanks for the info, I know mom's 66 rotted something terrible with maybe 40k miles on it so maybe finding one of those in decent condition will be tougher than I think. I can't weld so I have to be careful.

I did find and print the buyers guide you mention but I never bothered to get it out of my backpack once I saw the car.

I do like the EM better in some regards (funk factor/rarity) so who knows?

For the same $3900 the guy was asking for the blue basket case I saw last night the link below looks like a fun little car but I've been burned on sight unseen purchases too many times and Nebraska is too far away from Ohio.

http://www.shadesclassiccars.net/1962_C ... 582790.veh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Danny Joe]

I saw this 64 on the Toledo CL, for 4500 it runs and drives.

http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/5171667350.html

[8888]

Thanks, but I must have a manual transmission!

[64powerglide]

Three Rivers Mi.. Nice looking 66 Monza 4 speed, looks like turn key.
http://swmi.craigslist.org/cto/5205041871.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;