6 port EFI intake runner

[bruce.s]

I have a Turbo'd 140 with EFI, I'm looking to improve the performance. Currently, 140 heads with a 4 barrel manifold, 60mm throttle body, which is pressurized from the turbo. The injector bosses are welded to the head intake manifold, above the intake valves.
I just pulled one of the heads due to a dropped vale seat, and thought this might be a good time to upgrade.


who makes/sells a 6 port intake runner? either with a carb mounting pad, or front mount for a throttle body.

thanks,
Bruce

[notched]

You asked the same question on the other board.
If you are looking for a 6 port long runner intake then your options are:
Michael Leveque
Ray Sedman
Starr Cooke
All would need your heads for modification as it usually requires tri porting which is machining off the stock intake and either using adapters similar to the old Crown adapters used for a Weber conversion OR welding individual tubes to the heads.
There are no "kits" so to speak that I know of. Last option would be to fabricate your own.

[UNSAFE]

I highly recommend Michael LeVeque at LeVair Performance & Restoration in Anderson In.

Especially if you want it done in before you grow old

Even from Canada the extra shipping costs will be worth it .

Call him and get a professional opinion.

[miniman82]

I have a Turbo'd 140 with EFI, I'm looking to improve the performance.

There's only marginal gains to be had spending that kind of cash to triport your heads- you already have EFI and a turbo, USE THEM! Seriously, blow on the thing harder it'll wake up. If intake temps get too high, get an intercooler or meth injection. It would be nice to know what turbo you have though, that might be the key to unlocking this thing. What boost are you currently working with?

[bruce.s]

I'll start by saying my car hasn't run in 7 years. Something rattled loose one day, and I had a new baby to occupy all of my time(and money, ha). I walked away from the car, thinking it would be about ten years until I drove it again. Now the time has come to pull of the car cover. Did a comp test, found #2 cyl reading 25. All others between 130-150. Pulled the left head, turns out the intake seat dropped. No damage to the piston, or head. Just the seat sticking out a bit.
basics : stock crank, deep pan and spacer, high volume oil pump, Otto tb-30 cam, forged +.030 pistons, 140 heads, SDS stand alone EFI using a Nissan 60mm t-body mounted on 4 barrel manifold, injectors bosses welded on top of intake log(above intake port).
The turbo is from a 180. Then added an E-flow compressor wheel and housing. Next was a b-flow exhaust turbine and housing with the crown scroll screw modification, and enlarged output to enable the 180 downpipe.
I have a low pressure methanol injection which is sprayed into the compressor.
I have a deltagate wastegate with 9 lb spring. But, when you step on it, the autometer gauge reads 14lbs.
there's a decent sized Mazda oil cooler neatly mounted in the area below the air intake grill (under the back window).
sorry, I can't remember what the oil and cyl head temps were. It's been way too long...
oh yeah, stock 4 spd, 3.55 posi
hope this helps.

[miniman82]

You need a better turbo.

Even the E flow won't be enough to feed a 140 turbo near 15 psi, you'd do well to update to something modern. First you don't need a carbon seal, so that gains you some spool time moving to the dynamic seal. Second all the Rajay compressors get really inefficient past 15 lbs, so you're knocking on that door as well (high intake temps). I'd look for something T4 based, or a suitably built hybrid. I know a guy that can build you anything you want for a very reasonable price, PM me and I'll pass along his info. An intercooler will make you more power than meth right now, trouble is installing it. Any one of the water/air Ebay ones would work, you can put the radiator under the car where no one will see it. If that's too much trouble, you really need a pressure fed meth kit. The kind with a 150psi pump and nozzle, I got mine from Devil's Own. All those things could be done for as much as the headwork is going to cost, but you may end up just doing it anyway since you need seats.

[CorvairKid]

Hey Bruce, glad to hear someone else is trying this also. Here is a picture of my DFI turbo engine with the intake and runners from Levair.
Alex

[CorvairKid]

im also running intercooler with water/methanol injection

[bruce.s]

Alex,
that looks awesome. I'm very interested to see this come alive. HP, TQ, and 1/4 mile times.
mine looks very much like yours used to with the 4 brl manifold, except i have the injectors on the head, just above the intake valve location. We built this set up in the early 2000's.
What are you running for an oil cooler?
regarding the turbo, what is the A/R on your compressor and turbine? trim#?

Nick,
I'm looking into a liquid cooled ball bearing turbo, and a water/air intercooler. thinking of placing the heat exchanger under the back window(where Alex's I/C is mounted - and where my oil cooler is), and use it as the radiator for the turbo, as well. I'd have to relocate my oil cooler, and put a fan on it , but that's not a problem. btw, which side(top - bottom) of the remote oil cooler adaptor is the feed, and return?(in order to T off and use as feed line for turbo)
I've had these idea's for years, while my car was sleeping.

what gears are you finding the best results with? I know in the past, it was believed to use higher gears to make the turbo work, but i can't see that being valid with modern turbo's

[Scott V]

btw, which side(top - bottom) of the remote oil cooler adaptor is the feed, and return?

the stock oil cooler - in on bottom - return on top.

-Scott V.

[miniman82]

Nick, I'm looking into a liquid cooled ball bearing turbo and a water/air intercooler. thinking of placing the heat exchanger under the back window(where Alex's I/C is mounted - and where my oil cooler is), and use it as the radiator for the turbo, as well.

Good idea on the placement, but bad idea on using it to cool the turbo as well. The CHRA easily makes enough heat to boil any water going through it on hard runs, and water that hot can't do any good for cooling your intake air. If you're going to cool the CHRA (which isn't strictly required), put that on it's own circuit separate from the intercooler.

[CorvairKid]

Here is an old setup of my car. You can see intercooler below rear window. Im not running remote oil cooler yet. Planning on setting up one this winter yet. My oil usually stays below 220*F

For my turbo its a T3/T4 turbo from precision turbos. Its .60 air and .48 exhaust.

In the picture you can see the red tube running into the air hat and that is where i inject water/methanol starting around 3-5 psi.
As for which gear it depends on how i drive my turbo will spool up about 2000 rpm. If i really want to get up and go i can ride clutch a little bit off start to get psi up and you can really feel it then. But overall i notice the turbo more on lower end, second gear the most. But going down highway you can still feel the turbo when you stomp on it. Modern turbos are the way to go now days, they are able to be more balanced now between low and high end. Its been a lot of R&R for me at my age and learned alot.

[bruce.s]

Scott,
thanks for a speedy answer.

Nick,
good call on the radiator for the turbo. Do you think one of the aftermarket straight line-heat sink trans coolers would do the trick?

Alex,
Thanks for the info on your setup. Are you running stock 140 exhaust logs?
regarding the gearing, I meant what diff gear ratio's are providing the best performance.

In the past, everyone swore by the taller 3.08, in order to load up the turbo. I'm thinking 3.89??? what are some of you turbo guys running?

[CorvairKid]

Yes run stock 140 logs, i was running headers before and switched back to stock, it was night and day difference. Wrap the exhaust also makes a difference. Im just running 3.55 posi. I drive my corvair long distances to car shows so running 3.89 would be hard on motor running at interstate speeds. Was thinking about going back to 3.27.
It depends on what you use car for i would think, i have been doing drag racing and autocross racing so i have to balance between the two.

[miniman82]

good call on the radiator for the turbo. Do you think one of the aftermarket straight line-heat sink trans coolers would do the trick?

No, they have one major thing wrong with them: not enough surface area. You need a dedicated pressurized radiator and puke tank if you're going to water cool the CHRA- or you could just go without, since the jackets aren't really needed. I have a Garrett T3 turbo with water jackets on my VW, but didn't run any water through it. It's a junkyard turbo I paid $45 for back in Kalifornia, now that I have a hybrid it's moved on to pressurizing my bother's Silvia. Never had a single issue with not water cooling the thing, you have to realize how much heat we lose out our exhaust in these types of engines. The turbo simply doesn't see as much heat as it would on an OEM iron log style manifold, right up close to the valves. I've logged a 400*F drop in EGT from the valve to the turbine inlet on my VW, I suspect it's nearly the same story on a Corvair. Because of that you don't really need to use the water jackets, but I still recommend a short idle time before shutdown no matter what. That hot turbine housing holds a lot of heat, so to avoid wrecking the bearings I let it idle for a couple minutes. They make turbo timers, if you don't like sitting and waiting.