1964 Club Coupe & 1964 Turbo Vert - Decisions Decisions

[dagdal1967]

Looking on ClassicCars.com and found TWO cars that I like a lot...

FIRST: 1964 Club Coupe in what looks to be AMAZING condition.


http://classiccars.com/listings/view/42 ... lina-28078

More pics at :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77731942@N ... 765742464/

and Video at :



The price doesn't scare me based on the state of the car and it sounds like the owner is willing to negotiate.


SECOND: 1964 Turbo Convertible



http://classiccars.com/listings/view/41 ... rida-34293


So... QUESTIONS:

1) Does anyone know either of these cars and or the people selling them?
2) It the 64 Club Coupe car "Too good" to be a daily driver? I'm sensitive to that fact that pristine examples of the cars SHOULD be preserved... But I want to DRIVE mine!
3) In the opinion of the group, would adding aftermarket A/C from somewhere like CLARKS to either of these cars
* Be possible?
* "ruin" it? (I live in Texas after all).


Any opinions about either car or any of the above are eagerly sought!

Thanks

Doug

[bbodie52]

GORGEOUS! And only a few hundred miles from me! If I could afford it, I'd probably be arranging to view it myself for a possible purchase.

It this car "Too good" to be a daily driver? I'm sensitive to that fact that pristine examples of the cars SHOULD be preserved... But I want to DRIVE mine!

Too good for a daily driver? I would say PERFECT for a daily driver. But park it in the shade or in a garage, keep it shiny and well-maintained, and enjoy it! That's what they were built for! You might choose to keep it home in bad weather, avoid snow, sleet, salt and hail, tornados, hurricanes, and drunk drivers. But enjoy it!



I bought our current Corsa convertible as a daily driver. I hope to preserve it too, but it will still be used regularly (alternating with my 1991 Supra turbo and my 2003 Yamaha FJR1300 motorcycle).

Would I put A/C in that 1964 Corvair? I doubt it. I never liked the ay an A/C system was adapted to Corvairs. In Early Model Corvairs it always looked like an add-on patch job -- not really integrated into the car's engine compartment or interior at all! It got a little better in 1965 in the interior integration, but the engine compartment was a mess of a cover-up! The best was in 1966 and later -- much better integration in the engine compartment!. But with an air-cooled, air conditioned car it puts a lot of heat stress on that engine. The A/C will, of course, be heavily utilized on the hottest days, which heavily loads the air-cooled engine in the worst times for it. Add a fully loaded Corvair with four passengers on a hot day, with A/C running, and perhaps running on the highway and climbing some long uphill grades, and you are really pushing it -- especially for a 50 year old car! I managed to drive non-air conditioned Corvairs in hot, often humid states like Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, California, Texas, and now North Carolina since the 1960s. We rolled down the windows, opened the vents, and took a break once in awhile for a cold drink. I have driven Corvairs across the south in mid-summer, including through the Mohave Desert in the afternoon in August, and didn't need an air conditioner. Of course I ride a motorcycle too, and have ridden that in the hot summer across Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. So I guess I just learned to live with the heat.

Instead of a nearly $2000 A/C add-on to your Corvair, would a 2nd car -- a commuter car like a used, but clean air conditioned Toyota Camry -- be a possible alternative? For example, Kelley Blue Book http://www.kbb.com/ values a 1997 Toyota Camry 4-door sedan with V6, air conditioning (standard) etc. in EXCELLENT condition at $3,278. That isn't too much more than tha A/C add-on kit for a Corvair. And when you own a 50-year-old Corvair as a Daily Driver, a reliable backup car to use for commuting is a good idea. The purchase price of a Corvair is already significantly lower than the cheapest new car, so adding a spare, backup car with A/C to the total cost of "doing business" might just be a good idea. Especially when you consider that ANY significant breakdown on your Corvair will likely put it out of service for a week or so while you order parts and get it fixed! You NEED a backup car when you own a classic Corvair.

I love my Corsa convertible, but I wold not have purchased it if I did not have alternate transportation options included in my plans.

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... &page=AC-1


Part number C11944T: 64 COMPLETE A/C KIT WITH TRUNK CONDENSER

Weight: 80 lbs 0 oz
Catalog Pages(s): AC-3
Price: $ 1617.80



If you decide to buy that 1964 beauty, and proceed with an A/C add-on, I would read all eleven pages of the Clark's A/C section very carefully, and then order the two Corvair A/C books listed above and read them too. Do your homework, consider all your options, and then make a decision.

I hope the 1964 North Carolina Monza works out for you. It looks like a beauty!

[dagdal1967]

Thanks Brad! Quick on the draw as always! I agree, she is a BEAUTY in all respects.. I love the color and it seems to be calling my name..

However, Notice that I've added a second option to the mix in the original post. Any comments on that one?

As for the AC, I'm not hell bent on adding it to the car, It's just an option. I survived with my 914 with no AC during the hot summers and it was a Daily Drive for a while. AND, It's in my plans to move to the Pacific Northwest in the next year or 2 so AC will be almost a non-issue then. Funnily enough I ordered "The Ultimate Guide to Corvairs with Air" last night after reading the Clarks pages... You should be learning that I don't do much without research! :-)

And as for alternative transportation, I'm not planning on getting rid of my current car (Mercedes GLK 350) any time soon. I'd want to be completely confident that the Corvair was ready for "Prime Time" and trusted for longer trips.

The 'Vair will take place of pride in the garage and we have covered parking at my office (where I only go 2 days a week, and work from home the rest) so it will be well looked after.

So, anyone closer than Brad that might want to go take a look at this for me?

[bbodie52]

My comments show you the way I plan and think. Given the opening parameters you provided, I outlined how I would look at it. My next step would be figuring out the cost and schedule of an overnight Greyhound bus trip to NC from Texas to pick up that Marvelous Maroon Monza and drive it back!

However, I still prefer the unique Spyder convertible (slightly) over the Monza coupe. A/C in the turbocharged Spyder is, of course, not feasible and out. But you can put the top down. You may find the Spyder turbocharged engine slightly less-reliable than the 110 HP normally-aspirated Monza. The 1964 rear suspension includes a transverse leaf spring for improved handling, so both cars will be nearly identicle inthe handling department. You will not be "on the turbo" that much as a daily driver, so daily commuting will be about the same. The turbo is most used and felt on the open highway.

The 110 hp Corvair Monza will likely tolerate Regular fuel. The Spyder will not -- it DEMANDS Premium fuel and it also gets lousy gas mileage, so your cost of operation with the Spyder will be higher.

I would consider the Monza coupe to be in the "Toyota Camry" category as a daily driver -- more reliable, better fuel cost. I would put owning a Spyder convertible in the "Chevrolet Corvette" category. More costly to operate, not so good mileage and fuel costs -- a weekend and holiday fun car.

I don't know how the prices compare, but with 234 pictures and a video, and a lot of detail given on the Monza coupe, the Monza coupe is probably the smartest way to go.

More quick-draw opinions fresh from the Bodie soap box. Damn! I wish I had the funds to buy that Monza!

Good luck!

[dagdal1967]

So I just had an hour long conversation with the owner. He is the 4th owner of the car and is the one that has done the lion's share of the engine work. He has literally replaced every seal in the engine after he took the engine out, tore it apart and had it "boiled" to clean it. While he had the engine out he repainted and cleaned up the engine bay.

The previous owners were the ones that re-did the paint and interior and took it down to bare metal when they did. It was handed down to them by her father and he had it from almost new.

All of the paperwork is with the car including the original sales receipt, most of the service history and upgrades and info about the paint, etc.

The owner is going to try to put me in touch with a local Corvair mechanic in Charlotte that has worked on the car so that i can talk to him, as well as the guy who did the re-paint (who is a member of the local Charlotte Corvair club).

I'd still like to get an independent eye on it, so if there is anyone in Charlotte, he said that he was would be MORE THAN HAPPY to have anyone I liked climb all over the car for as long as they wanted.

Is there anyone out there who would be willing to do this for me?

Thanks in advance!

Doug

[bbodie52]

With all of those pictures and a video, a documented history of te car, and a history that goes back to the original owner, it doesn't get much better! The ability to discuss the car with a professional mechanic who has maintained it is also probably about as good as it gets when buying a classic car. I didn't have anywhere near that kind of background data to consider when I purchased my Corsa, and I paid more!

You might contact the local CORSA club in that area and see if they can offer comments about the car, and possibly about the local mechanic who is being offered as a reference, since local CORSA club members may be familiar with that mechanic. But there will come a time when you reach the limit of reassurances that you can obtain. I'm not sure why the comments of the local mechanic would be any less-credible than the comments of a CORSA club member or of a Corvair Forum member -- none of which you know personally. You will just have to trust your instinct at some point, and perhaps take a bit of a risk -- which is always the case when buying a used classic Corvair that will ultimately be "AS IS", without a warranty or guarantee. So far everything I've seen and heard sounds positive. If maintenance, ownership and restoration records and documents are available to examine, so much the better! If you decide to purchase the car, do you plan on having it shipped or do you plan on travelling out to NC to pick it up?

[dagdal1967]

I completely agree with you Brad. I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible from varying sources that I can. But from what I'm hearing right now, Im going to try to work with the guy and come to an agreed price and BUY!

As for how I get it home depends on how long the guy is willing to keep it after I purchase. I'm away from mid next week until after the 27th of June, so I couldn't get out there until after that. I'd love to go out and drive it the 1029 miles back home and really get to know the car.

By the way, the local mechanic that knows the car is http://www.shepardauto.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doug

[bbodie52]

Well, the Shepard Auto website seems to have some positive information, such as 15 years in business, Corvair and other classic car experience a specialty (somewhat rare). Being long-established in that area as a Corvair mechanic, there is probably a good chance that local CORSA club members, if you can contact them, are familiar with him.

Shepard Auto is one of the few links listed on the NC CORSA website. http://www.corvair.org/chapters/chapter271/

NC Classic Corvair Club of the Triad

http://www.triadcorvairs.com/

President: ..................... Bruce McKeon (336-472-0958) email: bnvmckeon@northstate.net
Vice President: ............ Karen Eanes (336-674-9309) email: keanes@eanescomfort.com
Secretary/Treasurer: .... Pat Martin (336-492-5715) email: a-pmartjr@yadtel.com
Club Rep: .................. Ven McKeon (336-472-0958) email: bnvmckeon@northstate.net
Location: ..................... North Carolina Triad Area

For what it's worth, he is also listed on Angie's List, which is a system of obtaining customer feedback.

http://www.angieslist.com/companylist/u ... 372443.htm

Spencer Shepard
10940 E INDEPENDENCE BLVD, Ste B, Matthews NC 28105, (704) 844-6211, (704) 287-5877 (fax)
http://www.shepardauto.com
Business Description: Family owned general auto repair business.
Operating Hours: Mon-Fri 7:30 Am-5:30 Pm; Sat 7:30 Am-3:30 Pm
Services Include: General Automotive Repair
Services Do Not Include: Body Work
Vehicle Makes: Chevrolet (Corvair)
24 Hour/Emergency Service:: No
In Business Since: 1998
On Angie's List Since: May 2010
Free Estimates: Yes
Warranties/Guarantees: Yes
Trade License Information: Yes, I am appropriately licensed for my trade
Eco-Friendly Accreditations: No Eco-Friendly Accreditations.
Bonded: No
Insured: Yes
All statements concerning insurance and bonds are informational only, and are self-reported. Since insurance and bonds can expire and can be cancelled, homeowners should always check such information for themselves.
Grades & Reviews in Air Conditioning - Classic Cars

Recent All
Overall A A
Price A A
Quality A A
Responsiveness A A
Punctuality A A
Professionalism A A
All Reviews 1 2
Non-Member Reviews 0 0
POH Nominations 1 2
Disputes 0 0

Review Date: October 17, 2011
Company Name: SHEPARD AUTOMOTIVE ENTERPRISES
Categories: Air Conditioning - Classic Cars
Brakes - Classic Cars
Restorations - Classic Cars
Service - Classic Cars
Services Performed: Yes
* More Weight is given to a review where work has been completed.
Work Completed Date: August 08, 2011
Last Modified Date: November 05, 2011
Hire Again: Yes
Approximate Cost: $600.00
Description Of Work: Brakes, AC, really they do all facets of auto repair except alignment and transmision service.
Member Comments:
Shepard Automotive takes great care of me and my classic car. Anytime you go there you’ll see Spence Shepard and his staff working on classics – Mustangs, Camaros, whatever. It’s really the only place to go if you own a Corvair – they have about ten of them around at all times, including a lovely one you’ll see most often at car shows. And don’t think they only work on American iron – last time I was there they were restoring an Isetta, and of course they do stellar work on my 1968 Citroën DS. They aren’t the cheapest, but their pricing is fair, and would you really want the cheapest technician working on your car? I trust Shepard Automotive to service all my cars, not just my classic, and they do so very, very well.

Classic Car Services

We are very experienced in repairs to older vechicles. We specialize in Chevrolet Corvairs but have experience with many classic cars. We have worked on cars as old as 1923 in the recent past. Mr Shepard regularly worked on cars from the late 40's and early 50's at his father's garage. He a has owned the following cars and more:

1938 American Bantam

Crosleys including 1948 Sedan, 1949 Station Wagon and 1952 Super Sport

1954 Triumph TR-2

1956 Chevrolet 2 door hardtop, 1957 220 HP, 283 Power Pak engine

1956 BMW Isetta

1962 Chevy Impala 2 door hardtop, 4 speed, 327, 300HP.

Corvairs including early sedans and convertibles, Greenbriers, Rampside, Spyder, late sedans, hardtops and convertibles CORSA's 140 and 180HP, total of approximately 20.

1965Corvair Yenko Stinger clone race car.

1966 Corvair Yenko Stinger race car.

1966 Chevelle 2 door hardtop.

1966 corvette, 327, 365HP

Mazda Rx-7's, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1987, 1988 convertible.

1994 Chevy S-10 pickup, SS.

[mechanic58]

Nice little car, but I think I'd rather spend that kinda cash on a 'different' classic car. It has been my experience that Corvairs are hard to sell...lol. There's a guy down here in Franklin, TX, just down the road from me, that has a very nice '63 Monza coupe just like that one - its even the same color; he's been trying to sell it on craigslist for 6 months and it still hasn't sold yet. He's only asking 2500 for it and it runs and drives. Its all original and un-restored. Been stored in a barn for decades (you know the rest of that story). Looks good in the pictures. I've been tempted to go look at it - but I'm afraid I might want to buy it - then I'd end up blowing all my hooker money.

[dagdal1967]

Well, I pulled the trigger this morning...

After spending another hour + talking to the current owner, pouring over the pictures and the video again, and driving myself nearly crazy second guessing myself , my gut kept telling me yes.

SO, I'm the proud owner of a 1964 Corvair Monza in Palomar Red.

We came to a nice agreement which included him replacing the current headliner. Papers are signed, now it's just a matter of retrieving the car.

I'm thinking that I'm going to go out to Charlotte and drive it back over the 4th of July weekend. Probably head up through Ashville, Knoxville, Memphis, Little Rock then then jump on I30 for the rest of the way. 1072 miles in total over about 3 days. Am I stupid? Should I have it shipped home???

NAH! Although it might be nice to have a list of local Corvair owners on the way just in case the worst happens! :P

[mechanic58]

Take lots of motor oil and rags with you.

[bbodie52]

Nice little car, but I think I'd rather spend that kinda cash on a 'different' classic car...

...Take lots of motor oil and rags with you.

A Pessimist! But I think his introduction to Corvairs was kinda' rough, and he hasn't been around them that long. I will be the Optimist!

I think I could only be more excited it that beauty were mine! I think you made a great choice! Considering your plans for its use, this Monza will probably be much-more appropriate than the Spyder -- although those Spyder convertibles sure have their appeal!

...I'm thinking that I'm going to go out to Charlotte and drive it back over the 4th of July weekend. Probably head up through Ashville, Knoxville, Memphis, Little Rock then then jump on I30 for the rest of the way. 1072 miles in total over about 3 days. Am I stupid? Should I have it shipped home???

I think I will drive my Corsa up to Asheville around the 4th of July and camp out there so I can watch you pass through in that beautiful Monza with a smile as wide as the trim bar on the nose of the car! Did you talk to the mechanic to get his comments?

When i purchased my Corsa it was in Lakeland, Florida. Even though I had never seen it "in person", I took a small risk and jumped on a Greyhound bus from Atlanta to Lakeland, and then grabbed a city bus to the dealer's location. After signing the paperwork and meeting my Corsa for the first time, I drove it home (586 miles) with incident (except for a lot of attention that it received at every gas station, rest stop, and fast food outlet that I stopped at!) I would recommend a cell phone and a AAA card though, just in case -- but then I never travel without those two items, and a portable GPS unit.

Have you ever driven on the Blue Ridge Parkway? http://www.blueridgeparkway.org/









If you have the time, my recommendation would be to pick up the southern end of the Blue Ridge Parkway in Asheville and head north -- as far as you like toward Roanoke or beyond -- and take your time exploring one of the nicest roads in the USA! If we travel up to Asheville, I have promised my wife that we will continue north on the Blue Ridge Parkway for a day or two, to picnic and enjoy the peaceful serenity and beauty that is found there. No significant traffic, slow speeds and lots of scenic rest stops -- in a Corvair! What could be better!!


You could also consider going through Chattanooga, TN and picking up US-72 through most of Tennessee -- a scenic route that my son and I took years ago on a motorcycle when traveling from Austin through Little Rock, and then Chattanooga to visit my father in North Carolina. It takes a little longer (1,118 miles, as opposed to your route of 1,072 miles), but it sure is more-pleasant than the Interstate highway -- unless you are in a hurry. Charlotte > Asheville > Franklin > Murphy > Chattanooga > via US-72 and McNairy County, TN > Little Rock > Dallas. CORVAIR COUNTRY!



However you travel, and by whatever route you choose, I hope you will take notes and photos and document your trip here on the Corvair Forum, so that we can jealously follow your first-contact adventure!

ENJOY!

P.S. Remember Corvair tire pressures...
18 psi in the front, and about 30 psi in the back!
Also, beware of detonation while climbing those long mountain roads. There is a pretty good lengthy uphill grade as you head west and approach Asheville! Your Corvair may need a mid-grade or premium fuel in the mountains, but can probably tolerate Regular fuel on more level roads.
http://www.persh.org/corvairs/tire_pressure.htm

[lonestranger]

I looked at that 64 spyder convert last week. Unfortunately, the pictures do not tell the whole story. It has had apparently a rather cheap paint job, with odd crazing on all the paint on the engine cover (deck lid?) and on the leading edge of front "hood" the paint is draped, as well as raising up in bubbles (my guess is rust coming through) The body is straight, however all the chrome (bumpers, mirror etc.) show significant pitting. The doors don't drop when opened, so hopefully the floor is ok. The upholstery is marginal, as the back seat material is splitting from the sun. It was inside when I looked at it, so based on the overall condition I saw, I did not start it and or drive it. Based on the poor paint, I think it should be stripped to find out what condition the body is actually in, also based on the condition of the trim etc. It would appear it might have been a rather rough puppy before the $99.00 paint job! Sorry, but that's my opinion. Don't hesitate to contact me it you have any other questions. Good luck on your search.

[72BBNova]

I looked at that 64 spyder convert last week. Unfortunately, the pictures do not tell the whole story. It has had apparently a rather cheap paint job, with odd crazing on all the paint on the engine cover (deck lid?) and on the leading edge of front "hood" the paint is draped, as well as raising up in bubbles (my guess is rust coming through) The body is straight, however all the chrome (bumpers, mirror etc.) show significant pitting. The doors don't drop when opened, so hopefully the floor is ok. The upholstery is marginal, as the back seat material is splitting from the sun. It was inside when I looked at it, so based on the overall condition I saw, I did not start it and or drive it. Based on the poor paint, I think it should be stripped to find out what condition the body is actually in, also based on the condition of the trim etc. It would appear it might have been a rather rough puppy before the $99.00 paint job! Sorry, but that's my opinion. Don't hesitate to contact me it you have any other questions. Good luck on your search.

There you go Doug, sounds like you made the right choice. That is one beautiful 64. I not sure which has more shine, the tires or the paint. Take Brad's advice and drive some of that Blue Ridge Parkway. Take lots of pictures and post them. My first car was a 64 Monza coupe that I bought off my dad when I was in high school. It was originally palomar red with black int, but by the time I got it, it was white. I remember when he got it from the nextdoor neighbor in 1971 for $350 with only 44,000 miles on it, thoughs were the days. Good luck with your new ride. Jeff

[dagdal1967]

For a split second I through LoneStranger was talking about the COUPE... PHEW!

I think I will take y'alls advice and drive some of the prettier areas, between Ashville & Chattanooga. However my other half wants to go through Nashville and Memphis to do some site-seeing so that means heading up that way. However, I'm going to try to stay off the interstates where I can.

For those who like Road Trips as I do, there is an awesome website called http://WWW.ROADTRIPPERS.COM. You can set your route and then see what kind of fun and offbeat stuff is within 20 +/- miles of your chosen route. Looks like there is some fun stuff on the way.

Thanks again to everyone that's helped me get to this point. Very excited to go pick up the new member of the family.

Doug