1961 Corvair Lakewood 700

[Phayes85]

First time classic car and Corvair owner. I am 27 with a one year old and expecting another child in November, so I have been struggling for the past two weeks to post this introduction. I do not have any experience with cars older than 2000, so yes I will have those annoying I don't understand anything questions, just an advance warning. I have always loved the look of early model Corvairs, sorry LM guys, I like late models too just no desire to own one yet. Cruising around Craigslist I found this 1961 Corvair Lakewood 700 in Hesperia. Never seen a station wagon Corvair, never knew they made one. Saw the bench seats and the two tone paint and jumped on it. Drove out the next day and was on my way home with a new car. Actually made the two hour trip back to Santa Clarita on its own power.

I was so excited I took it out to a small car show that weekend and came home with the best sedan award. Running on a high from the car show I decided to enter the car in a larger show of about 100 cars. I knew I was not going to win anything but I had a little hope. So I spent two day and $100 in supplies and a new buffer and polished every piece of trim I could remove and every spot of exposed paint. The car looked so good I had to see it in the sunlight. I grabbed the keys jumped in and started the car. To my horror the engine did not purr like the kitten nor growl like a tiger. It rattled like a 60 gallon metal drum rolling down a hill with a large rock in it. I think it threw a rod, that may not be the right terminology just show s you how green I am, but I think you get the idea. So goodbye summer car shows and cruise nights, hello my first restoration job.

I did plan on restoring the car just not this soon. I originally wanted to keep the car as original as possible, proper grammar here I don't think so, but the 80hp engine has already been replaced with a 110hp. I know thats an upgrade but thats not what I was going for. So plans change screw it lets make this car mine. Hello Judson supercharger if I can get it to fit. Well I actually go to see the supercharger tomorrow, but thats another story. The car appears to be in great shape but looks are deceiving. As I was cleaning out the car I removed the 100lb bag of cement out of the trunk and found a nice patch of rust. Hmm, I wonder if that bag of cement was there for better control while driving or to cover the rust from prospective buyers. Other than a couple spots of rust it looks pretty straight.

I plan on removing all the trim and interior myself, if possible, then sending the car to the body shop and to have the engine completely restored and tuned up. Hopefully I acquire the Judson Supercharger tomorrow and can add that to the car. Lakewood with a Judson sounds like it will look pretty cool. I know the Lakewoods were never offered with an a/c but living in so cal that was my wife's first complaint. I do plan on shipping the car to Maui when I retire so I may add an a/c system to the car. I know the a/c and supercharger will probably work against each other but thats why I have you guys, to set me straight. Let the opinions, suggestions, and advies come rolling in. As I said I am a Noob. I want to paint the car to its original colors so I will post the fisher tag in the vin section and hopefully someone can decode it for me. I also want to know what year engine I have in the car. I know it can be difficult to tell without breaking down the engine, but hopefully someone can tell. Well here are a couple pics of the car. Please enjoy ...

[Scott H]

I saw that car for sale. I did not get to see it in person but it looks like a great car.
As far as your engine trouble goes it sounds like the lifters leaked out the oil and collapsed. It's common in these horizontal motors. It doesn't happen all the time but its common enough. Usually happens to a new owner. Welcome to the wonderful quirky world of Corvair ownership. These cars are amazing and we all dig them. Go start it up again and let it warm up. I bet it quiets back down.

[bbodie52]

Welcome to the Corvair Forum!

I am 27 with a one year old and expecting another child in November, so I have been struggling for the past two weeks to post this introduction.

I think I know a little of how you feel. I took full daytime care of my granddaughter during her first year for 5-7 days a week. My wife is handicapped sao I was pretty-much it! Although we now have two grown sons, my wife handled most of the diaper changing, feeding, bathing and care for their infant years, so I did not eally realize how much that meant until I took on those chores for Alexis! WOW! You have one now, and another one on the way! Congratulations!! It is a good thing that you have a Lakewood station wagon and that it is such good condition. I doubt that you will have much time for more than driving it and washing it for the next few years!

As I indicated, nice Lakewood station wagon! I have already completed analysis of your VIN, Body Tag, and engine, and posted it at the following link...
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=5744

The body colors appear to be original, but the engine is not. The engine appears to be a 1962-1963 102 hp 145 ci engine with a 1964 or later magnesium blower. This combination provides your car with automatic chokes, which the original 1961 engine did not have (it had a manual choke with the manual cable choke control in the passenger compartment). The lightweight magnesium blower fan is a good modification, as it helps to provide increased fan belt reliability. An upgrade to an alternator in place of the original, but obsolete and less reliable generator might be worth considering in the future.

SANTA CLARITA! I was born in Van Nuys, was raised in Woodland Hills, San Jose, and Thousand Oaks (41 miles from you), and graduated from Thousand Oaks High School in 1971. I was married on April Fools Day in 1972 in Thousand Oaks and left California when I joined the Air Force in November of that year. We were stationed back in Southern California in 1983-1988, where I worked with Southern California Air National Guard units as a technical advisor. My office was in Van Nuys, and we lived in Camarillo and on Point Mugu Naval Air Station. So I am familiar with your homeland.

My current Corvair is number 10 in a long line of family Corvairs. I purchased this 1966 Corsa convertible last June, after being without a Corvair in the family since the early 1990s. I was proud of my new acquisition, and when I saw a promotion on the CORSA Facebook page for the Corvair Forum Corvair of the Month program, I decided to give it a try. I joined the Corvair Forum in August 2012 and entered my newly purchased Corvair Corsa convertible.


If you want to read a brief personal biography that outlines my family background and our experiences with Corvairs, go to CORVAIR FORUM > Introductions > New from Lake Chatuge North Carolina. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4032

I would like to suggest that you check out the nearest CORSA chapter and consider joining the club. Online Corvair groups like the Corvair Forum are really terrific, and can provide you with a great deal of information and assistance, as well as a sense of camaraderie. But there is nothing like face-to-face contact with other Corvair enthusiasts and aficionados. Either approach – direct contact or the Internet – can be very good. But both approaches together can be excellent and can provide you with greatly improved enjoyment of your Corvair.

When writing to a new member of the Corvair Forum for the first time, I usually try to provide some useful Internet links that I have found to be helpful when owning a Corvair. Here are some good Internet sources that I have found to be useful, and some additional links for Corvair-related information:

Free Downloadable Corvair Shop Manuals, Parts Manuals, Service Manuals, etc.
http://1969corvair.com/techpages/Corvai ... Index.html

Free Early Model Corvair Shop Manual & Other Useful Manuals
http://www.corvair.org/chapters/corvanatics/manuals.php

Joining CORSA (Corvair Society of America) -- if you are not already a member -- and a local Corvair club chapter is another good way to see and to learn more about Corvairs. You might check out the CORSA chapter in your area. Contacting a local club and making Corvair-knowledgeable friends can often be a big help.

CORSA (Corvair Society of America) Chapter Locator
Locating a local CORSA chapter near you can be very helpful, and attending meetings, parties, Corvair shows, etc. can greatly add to the enjoyment of your Corvair
https://www.corvair.org/index.php?optio ... crmSID=3_u

This appears to be the closest CORSA club chapter to you:

CORSA Chapter Locator - CORSA West of Los Angeles
Chapter ID: 914
Organization Name: CORSA West of Los Angeles

Street Address (Primary): P.O. Box 950023, Mission Hills, CA 91395

President: Randy Wicks, Canoga Park, CA, (818) 998-1926, vairlair@lafn.org
Vice President: Jonathan Bertman, 5238 E Avenue T12, Palmdale, CA 93552, (661) 547-5114 or (661) 533-4601, bertmans@earthlink.net
Treasurer: Bill Winkelmann, (818) 422.4066, billwink@aol.com
Secretary: John Medley, 818.912.9610 jamedley@roadrunner.com
Activities: Bill Soliday, 1050 Rancho Conejo Blvd, Newbury Park, CA, (805) 376-5114 or (805) 573-2188
Membership: Bill Winkelmann (818) 422-4066, billwink@aol.com
Merchandising: J.C. Salazar, (818) 362.3489, julcaes75@yahoo.com
Editor: John Medley, (818) 912-9610, jamedley@roadrunner.com

Newsletter Editor: Hoan Luu & Natalie Rezek
Newsletter Name: Westwind
Website: http://www.corsawest.com/
Email (Primary): sixtysixturbo@sbcglobal.net

Clark's Corvair Parts
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi

Corvair Underground
http://www.corvairunderground.com

Corvair Ranch (Used Parts, Machine Shop, etc.)
http://www.corvairranch.com/

This Web site seems to have the most comprehensive and well-researched data for fitting various tires and wheels to EM (Early Model, 1960-64) and LM (Late Model, 1965-69) Corvairs:
Sizing Corvair Wheels and Tires: http://autoxer.skiblack.com/tires.html

I posted this some time ago, on February 1, and it might be useful to you, because this Corvair specialist-mechanic is based only about 13 miles from you, and he is mobile and makes house calls!

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=5144

Check this out! A Corvair mechanic, enthusiast, and business entrepreneur has gone mobile in the Los Angeles area! This was spotted and identified on the CORSA Facebook page this morning...

http://www.60-9vair.com/index.html

If you live in the LA area, own one or more Corvairs, and need some work done on your Corvair, you might want to consider giving this businessman and mechanic a try. And if you are new to Corvairs and/or are considering buying a Corvair in the LA area, it might be worth your while to call this experienced mechanic to look your prospect over before you buy, to get his expert opinion of your potential Corvair purchase.

A brief search of the Internet shows Dave Statland as based out of Mission Hills, CA in the San Fernando Valley, and is a member of CORSA. He is associated with the CORSA chapter CORSA WEST

[bbodie52]

First time classic car and Corvair owner. I am 27 with a one year old and expecting another child in November, so I have been struggling for the past two weeks to post this introduction...

I was so excited I took it out to a small car show that weekend and came home with the best sedan award. Running on a high from the car show I decided to enter the car in a larger show of about 100 cars.

I knew I was not going to win anything but I had a little hope. So I spent two day and $100 in supplies and a new buffer and polished every piece of trim I could remove and every spot of exposed paint. The car looked so good I had to see it in the sunlight. I grabbed the keys jumped in and started the car. To my horror the engine did not purr like the kitten nor growl like a tiger. It rattled like a 60 gallon metal drum rolling down a hill with a large rock in it. I think it threw a rod, that may not be the right terminology just shows you how green I am, but I think you get the idea. So goodbye summer car shows and cruise nights, hello my first restoration job...

...Hello Judson supercharger if I can get it to fit...

I plan on removing all the trim and interior myself, if possible, then sending the car to the body shop and to have the engine completely restored and tuned up. Hopefully I acquire the Judson Supercharger tomorrow and can add that to the car. Lakewood with a Judson sounds like it will look pretty cool...

...I want to paint the car to its original colors so I will post the fisher tag in the vin section and hopefully someone can decode it for me. I also want to know what year engine I have in the car. I know it can be difficult to tell without breaking down the engine, but hopefully someone can tell. Well here are a couple pics of the car. Please enjoy ..

I know that I just unloaded a lot of info on you in my other two posts, but after finishing with reading your comments, I just have to add a bit more.

First, your enthusiasm is almost overwhelming! SLOW DOWN!!! Judson supercharger? Air Conditioning? Return it to original condition? Interiior restoration? BABY + 1? Plans for retirement in Maui with a Lakewood and you are only 27? It all sounds like a mass of conflicting impulses!

Enjoy your Lakewood. You appear to have located a great specimen, but take some time for research and learning about your car.

As previously mentioned, the sound you heard from your engine is likely just a noisy hydraulic lifter. The lifters in the Corvair engine are the same units that are used in the small block Chevrolet V8 engine. However, in a Corvair they lay on their side, rather then at an angle. There is a small oil hole in the side of each lifter. As the lifters operate, they also rotate in the lifter bore of the engine, and sometimes they randomly stop when you shut down the engine with the oil hole facing downward. This can allow the oil in the hydraulic lifter to drain out, so when you start the engine it may rattle a bit until the lifter gradually refills with oil. Just let it run a bit... it should quiet down on its own!

Before you begin hotrodding your engine with a supercharger you need to learn more about performance tuning air-cooled engines. Heat buildup can be an important issue, as can pre-ignition and detonation. Your stock engine may tolerate Regular gasoline or a medium grade fuel, but supercharged or turbocharged engines will not. Your car is a relatively heavy station wagon that is more than fifty years old. It was designed in an era of cheap high-octane fuel. Obviously in Southern California you already pay some of the highest fuel prices in the country. Octane ratings are down, and the price for Premium fuel is skyrocketing! The combination of Southern California heat, an air-cooled engine, and a 6-passenger station wagon capable of gaining weight rapidly with a lot of cargo capacity can really load your engine down. Sometimes climbing a long grade with a heavy load on a hot day can be too much and you will start to hear the engine rattle and ping -- which can be very destructive to an engine. Bolting on a Judson supercharger will not add low-RPM torque, but it will promote detonation and engine damage as heat and combustion chamber pressures rise beyond the engine's capabilities.

Performance modifications must be approached carefully and with a good understanding of the trade-offs. I would recommend that you learn to maintain and repair your engine in stock form first. Run a compression test on all cylinders to get a feel for the condition of the rings and valves. Spend some time detailing the interior, trunk, and body, and perform a safety examination of the brakes and suspension, If your car does not have seat belts, you should add them to keep those child safety seats secured. Check the age of the tires. My last posting included a link that covers wheel and tire sizing for Corvairs. The original 13" wheels and tires ar fast becoming an obsolete size. You may want to consider changing to 14" or larger wheels and installing some modern high-quality all season radial tires. They will improve handling, braking and performance significantly over the stock tires.

If you want to read about performance modifications, the Corvair Forum is the place to look. Also, if you get involved with a local CORSA chapter as I suggested earlier, you can learn a lot from discussions with other club members at meetings and other social get togethers. Here is another good reading source...

Many Corvair enthusiasts will remember this book. I have had a copy since about 1970...


How to Hotrod Corvair Engines by Bill Fisher (1971)

Well, a new, updated edition has been in the works for some time, co-authored by the original author, Bill Fisher, and Seth Emerson


Performance Corvairs: How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis
Seth Emerson (Author), Bill Fisher (Author)

When I started tracking this projected publication, it was supposed to be released last summer, and then slipped to December 2012. Since it still appeared to be unavailable in December, I sent the following email to Seth Emerson:

From: Brad Bodie
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 3:11 AM
To: 'sethracer@aol.com'
Subject: Performance Corvairs - How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis

Performance Corvairs : How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis (Paperback)
by Seth Emerson and Bill Fisher

Just curious if you can provide an update for this joint effort between you and Bill Fisher. I have had the original Bill Fisher book since I was a teenager in the early 1970s, and look forward to buying this new publication, but it seems to be subject to delay after delay! I hope you can get it published and released soon! Would love to see it in Amazon.com's Kindle eBook format too!

Brad L Bodie
Lake Chatuge

I just received a response from Seth Emerson, so I wanted to pass this information on to Corvair Forum members...

From: Sethracer@aol.com [mailto:Sethracer@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:17 AM
To: Brad Bodie
Subject: Re: Performance Corvairs - How to Hotrod the Corvair Engine and Chassis

Brad - I hope to get the book out by March/April. - Seth

As you can see by both email message times (3:11 AM and 2:17 AM), neither of us seem to get much sleep at night!

I learned a lot from the original Bill Fisher book, and I hope the new edition turns out well. Looking forward to ordering a copy in the Spring!

http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Corva ... od+corvair

So take your time, do some research, and develop a game plan. Browse through the online Clark's Corvair Parts catalog and get familiar with the parts and materials that are available. You will be amazed at what you can find just in the area of interior upholstery and carpeting! As you do some research, questions will certainly surface. Use the Corvair Forum to ask questions and to develop your plans for your Lakewood. Remember the designed purpose of a Lakewood station wagon. It is a family grocery getter and utility vehicle. I would recommend that you use it for that purpose and as a learning platform. The time may come in the future that you may want to pick up a coupe or convertible that is closer to a sports vehicle and is more appropriate for autocross, performance street driving, etc. One of the benefits of the Corvair is that it has already been subject to more than 50 years of hot rodding, racing, and modification efforts by thousands of Corvair enthusiasts who came before you. You have the benefit of lessons learned from those who have already gone through the trial and error process. You can pick up a lot through research, and careful planning on your part can help you to obtain some outstanding results!

You may want to enter your sharp, personalized, rare, and detailed Lakewood in the Corvair of the Month competition too, at some point.

I've dumped a lot of info on you today, and i hope that you will find it useful. Again, welcome to the Corvair Forum!

[cad-kid]

Welcome! Great Lakewood you found

[Phayes85]

Thanks for all the information and tips. I started the car again and let it run for about five minutes and the engine noise did not go away, so i do not believe it is the hydraulic lifter.

On another note I did purchase a Judson supercharger and have decided not to install it onto the wagon. After listening to your advice and the always helpful guys at West Coast Corvair, in Gardena. It is going to be my side project until I begin doing anything to the Corvair. I will post pics of the Judson as the project goes along.

I am waiting till June 2 to go to the Pomona Swamp Meet to see if I can find any parts for the Corvair for cheap. It will be my first time going, I hope to see some Corvairs there. Thanks for the advice.

[bbodie52]

I'm concerned about the undiagnosed engine noise. You might try temporarily removing the fan belt, and running the engine for a brief time without it just to eliminate the possibility that the source of the noise has anything to do with the rotating parts associated with the fan belt. If that does not quiet things down, you might use some tubing like a stethoscope to try to localize the source area where the sound is coming from. Perhaps a careful description of the apparent source and characteristics of the noise will help us to help you. You could also remove the valve covers to see if any of the rockers is unusually loose or if the noise is coming from a specific valve. The process of elimination as you "dig deeper" should help to identify the fault.

As for parts, you can also try listing your parts needs here on the Corvair Forum under the Classified Parts Wanted section. Used parts can also be sought out from sources like eBay and the Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, PA http://www.corvairranch.com.

Spending some time browsing the many pages of the Clark's Corvair Parts online catalog can give you a feel about new and used parts availability and pricing from that source.

[55_wrench]

+1 on the advice about the Judson supercharger. I've been away from 'Vairs for over 31 years, but I did have several in the previous 15 years and did try a Judson on my '65 Monza convertible.
Air-cooled engines are really sensitive to detonation, and that's what happened with mine..you are effectively raising the compression ratio of the engine with this add-on.
Personally, I think your Lakewood is great leaving it stock--
I got into most of my Corvair problems by trying to hotrod the engine. If you ever need a rebuild, go with forged pistons if possible--I've had more than my share of broken pistons and dropped valve seats, and that was on 10-year old engines that were not having problems with detonation. I can omly imagine what another 30 years could do to an engine that was driven regularly in the intervening years.
I also ran an IECO 2BBL on my 110HP engine. It's Ok in warmer climates but you'll always get some throttle lag. I got my best ever mileage with a Corvair using that setup, but it was during a measured highway mileage run at the 1975 Seattle Corsa convention--32MPG..but city driving will almost drop that number in half.
I wish I had time to play with them again, but there's no chance of that--but so much has changed since I have been out of the hobby, the idea of computer controlled fuel injection is very intriguing, and was totally out of reach back in the day.
Congrats on a nice find, and enjoy your new ride!

[bbodie52]

55_wrench...

Welcome back, and thanks for the voice of experience! I've also been aaround Corvairs most of my life, since my parents bought our first Corvair -- a new 1961 Monza --- when I was 8 years old. I also went through the hotrod years, with an IECO manifold on my 140hp engine, a hot cam, Holley 4bbl, and headers (when they were hard to get a seal on the exhaust ports -- I used to get foot-long flames firing from the tailpipes like afterburners, and grabbing the unwanted attention of the local cops in the process!)

I'm currently planning a try of the Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) and Distributorless Ignition System (DIS) on my stock 140 hp Corsa convertible, but looking for better reliability and smoother performance using modern technology more than hotrodding the thing. I'm 60 years old and looking more at my Corvair as a daily driver and for long, enjoyable trips.

So it doesn't sound like you're inclined to reenter the world of Corvair ownership again... so what motivated you to join in with our little Corvair crowd on the Corvair Forum? Do you have any old photographs of your Corvair days that you could share? How about a brief biography to tell us a little more about you and your past interest in Corvairs? We would love to hear more from you!

Hope to hear from you again. You are welcome to drop in anytime!

[Phayes85]

bbodie52...

Thanks for the advice, I am definitely going to try to diagnose that today.

[bbodie52]

If all of your efforts fail to produce an answer, you may have to consider enlisting the helpdul support and experience of the local, mobile Corvair mechanic that I mentioned in a previous post. Good luck!

[55_wrench]

Brad and OP, tx for the welcome!
interesting question, why I’m interested in Corvairs again!

Actually I never stopped being interested in the car..After 30 years of hindsight, I probably forgot most of the hard times during my misadventures with the car...so what’s left are good memories.
With the responsibilities of raising a family (at 27), having a daily driver that needed attention and was prone to minor problems from time to time, I needed something more reliable than my last Corvair, my Rampside. The final straw was when the cam gear worked loose (due to a shop NOT following factory procedure-freezing the cam and heating the gear)--having to split the case (again) I realized there were not enough hours in a week to keep chasing this stuff down.

But I still have a soft spot for the cars, and the people I knew back in the day.

Looking at the range of topics and the enthusiasm for the brand, this site stands out as far superior to many auto enthusiast sites that are populated with fanboys, snarky commenters and the like. On Corvairforum.com I’ve found there is a high degree of energy and willingness to help others, especially as the cars get rarer and the problems shift more to body rot and OEM / trim part availability as the base vehicles approach a half-century of age. I restored a total of 4 cars when they were only 10 years old, and never realized how easy I had it. What really floors me is how the cost of replacement parts have risen, but at least they’re available.

One thing I’ve always been curious about, was--what happened to my old rides? I’m especially interested in the late 4-door, Rampside and my ‘65 Monza convertible, I sold all of them about 1982-1983 timeframe, to buyers who were in the San Jose area. I’ve attached pix of all 3 as they were in the early 80’s.

And finally, there was what I called the “Pink Panther” No photos survive, but it was in hindsight a cheesy disco-era mild custom of a ‘65 hardtop. I put Camaro taillights in it,padded white vinyl in the rear cove area, in addition to ‘64 Caddy door pulls on the inside, a ‘66 GTO console on the floor with ‘65 Bonneville gauges (the ones that went into the center of the Pontiac dash) embedded ahead of the shifter and a bank of switches embedded behind it.. All topped off with Chrysler Panther Pink paint. I last sold it to Jim Mckelvey (then-owner of the Corvair Shop, formerly located at 876 the Alameda, San Jose) in the late ‘70s and that was the last I ever heard of it. What I did would be considered a travesty now, but what the heck, it was a sub-100 dollar car and I was only 19 at the time. It took me to Texas and Canada, and was a hoot to drive.

Also the people--I see Seth Emerson is still active in the group, as he was back in the mid-70s. The rest I have lost track of, Bud & Alexandra in Jackson, CA, Mike V in Sonoma, not sure if you are looking at the site, but if so, please PM me. I know it’s been a long time, but I never forgot the good times. There was a ton of Corvair interest in the Bay Area back then, and it’s interesting to see a new generation sharing that enthusiasm, with great support from parts vendors who have successfully fed the demand for repro ands NOS parts.

So it’s nice to drop in and see what’s happening now, I currently have a very long commute and a Mercedes 300SD Turbodiesel as my project car, and I’d have to get rid of both of them to get back into Corvairs again, and that’s not likely at this time.
Thanks for the forum, I’ll be checking in from time to time, and if any of the ‘70’s & 80’s Bay Area enthusiasts are still out there, I’d like to hear from you.

[cad-kid]

I like the topper/camper on the rampside something different.

[55_wrench]

Not meaning to hijack the thread here--if you want more info on the camper top. please PM me.
tx
Wrench