LM vs. EM Debate.

[marvgarr]

I will never own a late model hate the way they look earlys have more style and class

[new mexico vair]

you gtell 'em marv

[Tom G]

Brad: Your posts are always outstanding. My opinion on the earlies has to do with sentiment and actually after owning the 68 Convertible I do feel that the earlies were a bit more substantial in terms of build quality. I will say thought that the late models are stunning in the looks department. My 68 convertible had horrible front seats and a steering wheel that looked like it came out of a Biscayne! The 65 and 66 models do have better seats and are better appointed. To me the late model coupe is absolutely goreous. I'd actually consider giving up the open air of a convertible to have one. The roofline and the rear window treatment is simply beautiful. The early models look great as well. Both styles are completely different but both have gorgeous lines and are totally in proportion. Like I said before there is no such thing as a bad looking Corvair. I'd like to have both, but since I most recently owned a late model and still long for the 62 Monza sedan of my youth, I'm going in that direction.

[bbodie52]

Thank you for the positive comments.

I agree with your negative assessment of the interior trim and "styling" appointments that Chevrolet chose as "hand-me-downs" for the last of the series in 1968-1969. The only engineering improvements "allowed" were mandatory safety improvements like a dual master brake cylinder and a safety steering column. They had already abandoned the best of the line after 1966 -- the Corsa -- and the two Corsa engines with either the 4-carburetor/large intake valve/dual exhaust better-breathing 140HP normally-aspirated engine or the 180HP turbocharged engine (although the former engine design somehow persisted until the end). Other intriguing prototype engine designs were thought of by GM engineers (see photograph below) but never moved forward into production because of the already-established GM Executive-approved Corvair death-sentence. Modern Corvair aficionados may pick and choose among the ten model years for their favorite or least-favorite detail, but we all agree on the overall "look" and "feel" and sound of ANY Corvair that we get to own or drive. If we can own multiple examples that cover the design and model year variations -- so much the better! I would love to own a Corsa Turbo coupe to match with my Corsa convertible. And I dream of a 1962-1964 Spyder coupe or convertible too! And maybe a Greenbriar, or a Rampside to haul some groceries, or a Lakewood wagon, or... well, you know! Garage limitations, spousal approval, funding, etc. mandates some limits!

Here are some favorite comments from the automotive media over the years...

Where's the incentive for real innovation? Why should Detroit do something really different? Over the last 10 years you've shown that you're more interested in good looks, brute performance and shrewd detailing than in radical new mechanical features. After an early spurt of interest you've ignored the Corvair, probably the nicest car Detroit is building today. Well, car owners of America, your'e getting what you asked for.
Karl Ludvigsen, Motor Trend, October 1968

That the Corvair has continued on into 1969 is a credit to a stubborn band of buyers who see beyond unfounded attacks.
Road Test, October 1968

Suppose you are head man in a big time motor works, profitably building the most reasonable car on the market. For argument's sake, let's say you have this car that handles as well as anything on the road, has set the style for everyone else to follow, is an engineering tour de force that gives better gas mileage than a Rambler American, handles snow like a Saab, stops faster than a Stingray, and costs less than three grand optioned to the teeth. Then imagine that a half-qualified weirdo wanders onto the scene, telling everyone who'll listen that you are a bad guy, since you used to build a car that wasn't as good. Just suppose all this incredible stuff was true, what would you do? QUIT? Give up? Cop out? Open the memory tube and uninvent it? Let's face it, you wouldn't be the first to be castigated. If history offers any precedent, consider the now legendary Model T Ford. It was a rolling booby trap, dangerous indeed to the unwary. Steinbeck lovingly told of being put up against the wall by his Liz when he cranked it with the levers in the wrong places. And thousands of arms were broken by kicking cranks. Henry Ford fixed all that with the Model A, of course, and he was proud of it. But suppose Upton Sinclair had put the knock on the "T" in 1928, claiming that since the Lizzie had some faults, all Fords were menaces to the American Way. Would Ford have said, 'I'll just stop talking about my Model A and quit making it as soon as I can Mr. Sinclair?' Hardly. Then why is the Corvair dead? No guts, that's why.
Robert Cumberford, Car and Driver, August 1969

It is the best true Driver's car ever built in America.
CORSA Quarterly (Vol. 1, No. 1)

The Corvair, in its present form, comes closer to being a real sports car than any of the current crop of Ponycars. True, the Corvair does not feature the lunging, neck-snapping acceleration of Ponycars equipped with monster 400-cid engines. But around town, through mountain passes, and over winding secondary roadways, the Corvair is pure pleasure.
Car Life, January 1968

[The Corvair was] one of the greatest acts of industrial irresponsibility in the present century.
Ralph Nader, Unsafe At Any Speed, November 1965

On tight corners, the 65 Corvair will hold its own with anything on the road.
Hot Rod

...the Corvair is a sane, sensible, well-designed car of a type we've been asking for for 10 years.
Road and Track, 1959

You might say that the Corvair changed our auto making process to such a degree that there will never be another Corvair. I don't think any other car in the last 25 years has been that significant.
Patrick Bedard, Car and Driver, July 1980

The styling speaks for itself; it is undoubtedly the sexiest-looking American car of the new crop and possibly one of the most handsome cars in the world...
Car and Driver

The handling and stability performance of the 1960-63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic.
U.S. Dept. of Transportation, 1972

Consumerism, the NHTSA and the EPA. Name a car, other than the Model T, that can be praised and blamed for getting everything started in the first place, that has had such far-reaching impact on our lives. Truly, in just 10 short years, the Corvair made its mark.
Mike Knepper, Corvair Affair, 1982

We personally ... feel that the hood is a trifle short.
Car and Driver

Thanks to THE CORVAIR INFOCENTER: http://www.innoma.com/projects/webs/vair/quotes.html

[Tom G]

Brad: fabulous as usual! I have the August 1969 Car and Driver and am going to scan and post that entire article by Robert Cumberford.

[bbodie52]

I'm looking forward to reading that article when you get it posted. Thanks!

[hentysnr]

Hi Guys
Well I have finally decided to add my cents worth here for the simple reason that I have finally had the priviledge of seeing and sitting in a LM. As you might know there is literally only a handful of Coupes in SA. Now, there is NO doubt in my mind that I'm leaning heavily towards the EM. The LM have many improvements but sorry I'm stuck on the EM, just love em! I suppose if I found a third 4dr I'd buy that aswell
Regards
Henty

[Ragtop Man]

This is a tough one for me too . Disclaimer : I have not read all 8 pages of this thread Clearly the early models had more variety what with coupes , convertibles , wagons , vans and trucks and did seem to be a tad sturdier . LM's win in the elegance and styling department in my humble opinion but I have to say I wish I still had my 64 coupe too . Maybe this guy wanted the best of both worlds See below

[bbodie52]

Well I'll be... a 1965 Chevrolet Corvair Lakewood/Nomad Station Wagon! Every time I've believed I'd seen all conceivable variations and customs, another well-done, unique custom shows up! This is amazing! It really exists? Not a computer-generated concept car? Are there any more photos showing more detail and more angles? This belongs on the cover of the CORSA communique!

Do you have any more details about this custom station wagon? I remember seeing a green custom early Ford Mustang station wagon on the cover of a car magazine back in the sixties, and my foggy memory seems to recall a Mercedes station wagon too. This Corvair stands with the best of 'em.

[flat6_musik]

Wow!! Can you imagine if some offered a kit to convert your 2-door LM?! When I become a billionaire, that will be on my "Top 5 To-Do" list.....

...And powered by......(by the way, where is this motor right NOW?)

[bbodie52]

After my last entry, I did a little work with Google, and the Internet comes through again!


I EVEN REMEMBERED THE COVER, NAMING THE CORRECT COLOR OF THE MUSTANG - GREEN! I'm almost sixty years old, but my memory of this Car and Driver 1966 cover from when I was 13 years old had not faded!

Don't forget to enter your vote for Corvair of the Year!

[Ragtop Man]

I have no idea if its real but it does seem to be . It does look pretty cool . I found it while doing some reading on Ernie Kovacs and his accident in a Lakewood . Here's a link to a VW forum where they seem to love Vairs as well and it's in one of those , maybe on the second page of the results but for some reason the pic is linked to Jay Leno's website . When I went over there to try to find it and see if there was any info I got nowhere . It actually came up first using Bing images and searching that same topic . I figured it would garner some attention here Maybe you guys can find more about it .
http://forums.vwvortex.com/search.php?searchid=25798256

Here's the link at Jay's webpage
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/images/yo ... b8d635.jpg

[bbodie52]

More Google time... I did locate this picture of the 1965 Corvair Monza Station Wagon. On this Web page they nicknamed it the 1965 Nomair Corvair -- a reference to the similarity to the Chevrolet Nomad that I had noticed when I called it a Lakewood/Nomad. There was no additional information on this Web page. http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forum ... php?i=6825

In addition to the original "Nomair", there were two other photos, simply labeled "65 Corvair", as shown below...



Even though it was labeled a 1965, it does have 1966 tail lights in the recessed tail area, with Corsa silver paint. Notice the license plate? "LATEWOOD"! A Late Model offshoot of Lakewood.




There was no additional information about these Corvairs on this Station Wagon Forums.com Web site.

Don't forget to enter your vote for Corvair of the Year!

[bbodie52]

I found the truth about the red Nomad-like Corvair...

I wish they would have made the LM model Nomad

John Shoemaker,Riegelsville,PA.

Its a photoshop wagon . Pic is of a vert.

John Shoemaker,Riegelsville,PA.

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.ph ... 949,203995

That's too bad. He did a great job with Adobe Photoshop, though!

Maybe somebody on the Corvair Forum who is very talented and creative will be inspired by this Photoshop picture and will build a LM Corvair Lakewood/Nomad for real!


Don't forget to enter your vote for Corvair of the Year!

[Ragtop Man]

Latewood , funny! Looks awesome but , alas, never meant to be Does this mean we can call a Lakewood an Earlywood now? Brings on a totally different connotation! Good work with

Ironic that you post that guys quote from elsewhere - the guy from Riegelsville , PA . Never heard of the town until earlier today when I was watching a show about the place just by chance

[bbodie52]

Corvair of the Year 2012

Corvair Forum - Corvair of the Year.png (75.92 KiB) Viewed 5906 times

This Late Model (LM) vs. Early Model (EM) Debate thread has been running on the Corvair Forum since 2009. So far 284 votes have been cast, along with eight pages containing 127 posts and opinions. Yet the Corvair of the Year competition seems to draw much-less interest. For Corvair of the Year 2010 only 24 votes were cast, producing a 4-way tie. A tie-breaker drew 42 votes and produced a winner. The Corvair of the Year 2011 competition only drew 26 votes! So far, as of November 7th, 24 votes have been cast for Corvair of the Year 2012.

Each year, after ten monthly Corvair of the Month competitions, ten finalists are produced to be evaluated by Corvair enthusiasts and aficionados for Corvair of the Year. Ten excellent Corvairs for your consideration! I would like to encourage more interest in this program on the Corvair Forum. The only prerequisite is that you must have posted at least three times on the Corvair Forum in order to vote. I'm certain each of you can find reasons to express your opinions or to answer some questions from other Corvair enthusiasts at least three times! Then you can vote! Please take a few moments to add your vote to the Corvair of the Year 2012 poll.

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