Wheels

[Tblatt]

Just bought my first corvair. 63 900. I'm looking for wheels for 4 lug something like a cragar ss, are they good options on the market.

[Dennis66]

The EM 4 lug pattern is not a popular pattern. Not sure anybody makes wheels in this pattern, so new Cragers are probably out of the question. 13'' tires are also a bit dificult to get in the correct (or close to) size. The Datsun Z and some other cars share the pattern. I believe also the early Ford Mustang II was also the same. Ebay is about the best bet, but decent wheels are pricey and shipping can be expensive.
I chose to stay with 13'' and the early spoked hubcaps. Many switched up to 14'', and many to 15''. For the 14'' GM did make a 14'' spoked hubcap that is almost identical to the 13'' one the early Corvairs used.

[Gasman63]

I recently put aluminum wheels on my 63 vert. Im sure you can find my thread asking lots of questions. Im not great as links and stuff so .... It will help you as some links were also involved and lots of info.

As for bolt pattern, 4x4.5" is factory and 13". But this is the same as 4x114.3 in metric sizes. But bolt pattern is just the beginning. I found a restored set of 1984 Nissan 300zx wheels In 15". After lugnuts, tires and everything I believe i have around 1400 bucks in the whole change over. Just giving you some info to think about. Look up my thread and learn about it completely. Lots of Info on this found on the forum. Just do a search.

[Dennis66]

These are on facebook marketplace and in Mo. Personally, I shy away from "Unilug" wheels, but I figured I'd mention them.

[gbullman]

I think this is the thread that gasman is referring to;

viewtopic.php?t=20577

Lots of info on alternate wheels. Tire availability is a big reason owners change wheels, there is 1 manufacturer (Maxis) making the correct sized tire for Corvairs and they only do production runs intermittently.

[jimbrandberg]

I avoid uni-lug wheels like the plague, especially since new wheels will probably not be hub-centric.

Some aluminum wheels will require longer studs. Something like 4 turns of thread engagement is not enough. It's like another $50 investment. Maybe another $50 for proper lug nuts that aren't in danger of pulling through.

[Gasman63]

Thanks for the help Gary. I do good to just post.

[Dennis66]

I too, as mentioned, don't like unilug wheels. I have a story about my R/F wheel being a block ahead of the rest of the car. I would recommend if anyone uses unilug wheels, have a machine shop make spacers to transfer the wheel load to the hub. I got into a lengthy dispute with an aeronautical engineer about vehicle wheels and load bearing (hub center vs lugs and compression loading) and came away with "you keep designing airplanes, and let me have my correct opinion about stuff on the ground".

[Tblatt]

Very Helpful information, thanks. I did find this site https://nlmotoring.com/wheel-bolt-patt ... width=ASC

[Wittsend]

... I believe also the early Ford Mustang II was also the same. ... .

The early 6 cylinder Mustangs (and Falcons/Comets -1960's cars) were were 4.5" X 4. However the Mustang II (74 -up) were 4.25" X 4 which it shared with the Pinto (and Sunbeam Tiger/Alpine).

As far as the 14" Datsun 240Z wheels go (that fit a Corvair) they are getting crazy money for the stock steel wheels especially for the early year cars. The Ebay ads posted below are for One and Two wheels respectively! Back then so many of the steel wheels were tossed aside for alloys (Ansen kidney bean style - mostly) that the date codes on those Topy wheels are really hard to find for the purest. You may find later date coded Datsun Steelies cheaper as well perhaps some of the factory alloys. Also of note, the very early Z cars had I believe 4.5" wide wheel, that graduated to 5" and then 5.5". Alloys might be different even if the style is the same. At least know to check.

FWIW, here is my '61 Lakewood with 185-65-14" up front on Z car, 5" wide steelies and rear 215-60-14" on 5.5" steelies. The rears are close but no rub. The front (cut one coil) rub in a sharp turn with a front passenger. BTW, 14" tires are in very limited size now. I doubt I'll ever find 215-60-14" again. In summary, yes Datsun Z wheels will fit. They are getting rare and expensive and tires size is limited.

[flat_six]

I too, as mentioned, don't like unilug wheels. I have a story about my R/F wheel being a block ahead of the rest of the car. I would recommend if anyone uses unilug wheels, have a machine shop make spacers to transfer the wheel load to the hub. I got into a lengthy dispute with an aeronautical engineer about vehicle wheels and load bearing (hub center vs lugs and compression loading) and came away with "you keep designing airplanes, and let me have my correct opinion about stuff on the ground".

Haha. You are more than welcome to harbor your opinion.

The thing is, the aeronautical engineer does not go by opinions. He or she makes conclusions based on observation, experience, and proven concepts.

Bottom line: Unilug wheels are fine as long as the holes are in good condition, the lug nut threads have sufficient engagement, and the nuts are kept properly torqued.

As long as there are clamping forces in place, the studs will never see cyclic loading.

[66vairguy]

I too, as mentioned, don't like unilug wheels. I have a story about my R/F wheel being a block ahead of the rest of the car. I would recommend if anyone uses unilug wheels, have a machine shop make spacers to transfer the wheel load to the hub. I got into a lengthy dispute with an aeronautical engineer about vehicle wheels and load bearing (hub center vs lugs and compression loading) and came away with "you keep designing airplanes, and let me have my correct opinion about stuff on the ground".

Haha. You are more than welcome to harbor your opinion.

The thing is, the aeronautical engineer does not go by opinions. He or she makes conclusions based on observation, experience, and proven concepts.

Bottom line: Unilug wheels are fine as long as the holes are in good condition, the lug nut threads have sufficient engagement, and the nuts are kept properly torqued.

As long as there are clamping forces in place, the studs will never see cyclic loading.

WOW lets cool off --- there are some reasonable arguments/opinions from both points of view. Yes lug studs usually tolerate uni-lug wheels without failure, BUT yes the uni-lug wheels have a history of wheel centering issues! For my own use I avoid uni-lug, but if I did use them I would also use a hub/spindle spacer to center them IF needed!!! A buddy went through this fiasco and the tire/wheel place would align them and crank down the lug nuts. A few weeks later his car was rumbling and the wheels were off center. After four tries he threatened the store with going to court and they bought back the wheels. Why they never tried a hub centering ring is a mystery.

Having worked in aerospace I am well aware of best design vs. cost considerations, schedules, and "make it work" pressures. I was one of the persons who sorted out the "problems" and there was never a shortage of work to do.

[flat_six]

Apologies, I didn't intend to "raise the temperature". But as a mechanical engineer myself, I bristle when people start expressing "opinions" when it comes to safety related topics.

That said, I agree that, in theory, the Unilug design is not optimum. This is especially true when you consider the oval hole version to fit Ford and Chevy patterns. Piloting off the hub with centering rings would seem ideal, to ensure that the wheel is properly centered while mounting and torquing.

Further, I have known many an engineer who lived their life in a theoretical world. People who have actually run the hardware, have hands-on experience, and understand variations that can occur in the real world know a thing or two also! Especially those that have witnessed failures of a supposedly sound design.

[66vairguy]

Further, I have known many an engineer who lived their life in a theoretical world.

Yes the "scientists" PhD engineers do need to rely on the real world folks. I had one "scientist" who was convinced he was correct even after I assured him I had examined his theory and found nothing. When I found the actual problem he was a decent person and congratulated me on my findings. After that he was more willing to "listen".

As is common with most failures -- it is rarely just ONE thing. I'll add I could not have found the problem without the help of a brilliant bench technician I worked with for years.

This is a good story ----
A mathematician, a scientists, and an engineer walk into a bar.
The bartender says "Hey what is Pi?"
The mathematician says "Pi is an irrational number that is transcendental and cannot be expressed as a simple fraction."
The scientist says "Pi is the ratio of a circles circumference to it's diameter."
The engineer says "Pi is about 3.14".

All have their places!!

[Scott H]

Just bought my first corvair. 63 900. I'm looking for wheels for 4 lug something like a cragar ss, are they good options on the market.

https://www.vtowheels.com/

[Scott H]

I run 16x8 rear and 16x7 front. These wheels are aftermarket wheels off a Nissan 240SX.