Lots of smoke the BAM it quits

[manofsteel]

Being a decent mid 50's degs yesterday , I decided to run the 1965 Monza 140 4sd convertible near Milton, Delaware. After just replacing my recently rebuilt Carb from Wolfs Corvair Carbs in Florida and they ran great last week. So as soon as it started it was blowing blue smoke every where. Gave it a little rpms to clear the smoke when BAM and the engine locked up. Tried to turn it over and NOTHING. What happen???? Did it drop a valve or something. Plenty of oil and clean. I live in Milton/Rehobeth/ Lewes area and will be needing a mechanic to figure this out. Any help out there for a brother Corvair enthusiast? Talk to me about what might have happened and whats involve to fix. Thanks
Jim H

[KenHenry]

Maybe a badly flooded carb hydro locked the engine. Try pulling the spark plugs and turning it w a wrench. Flooding would explain the blue smoke too. Good luck! Ken

[jimbrandberg]

There's plenty of possibilities.
That's good advice to remove the spark plugs and turn the engine with a 3/4" wrench for a couple of revolutions to make sure it turns freely. You don't want to cause further damage if something mechanical is interfering. Sometimes when you turn it counter-clockwise like it runs the bolt loosens up so it's okay to turn it clockwise.
You can try rapping a flooding carburetor on the round part where the inlet is to free up a sticking float.
BAM when it quit is a keyword.

[Torskdoc423]

Also, Check oil level also especially if you are running mechanical pump. Dilution of oil in crankcase has lead to complete teardown an overhaul by owners with replacement of various bearings, rings, etc. Get rid of the mechanical pump (if you have one) and replace if with an electric kit, Get the dummy plug (bypass for the mech pump) and the LOP switch setup (Loss of pressure) kit. https://www.racersrods.com/category-s/1825.htm Damned near plug and play. IMO best kit out there. My opinion is probably worth a clean floor, looks nice and the boss wants it clean enough to eat off of.. But the food is so damn bad you definitely want a 2nd or 3rd opinion.

[joelsplace]

If it was running it didn't hydro-lock unless you drove into a lake. The bam and lock while running is very bad.

[Gasman63]

When mine stopped moving it was a valve seat came out and got crushed into many pieces. Couldnt turn the engine at all by hand.

As said, pull plugs and see if it will turn with a wrench. If not then some will rent a tiny camera and look in the cylinders. I opted for engine tear down.

[azdave]

Maybe a badly flooded carb hydro locked the engine. Try pulling the spark plugs and turning it w a wrench. Flooding would explain the blue smoke too. Good luck! Ken

No. A running engine won't hydro-lock from a carb issue unless the fuel is being poured directly in from 5-gallon jug at the time. Black smoke indicates excess fuel. Blue smoke is burning oil. My guess is that the blue smoke is a red herring and that you maybe had a rod cap fail. A dropped valve seat won't usually lock and engine up completely but it can. Please let us know what you find.

[jimbrandberg]

Of course I know nothing from afar but have some general comments on common Corvair BAMs.

A valve seat that comes out and cocks allowing the piston to come along and hit the valve is one thing.
A valve seat that shatters into 1000 pieces the size of a match head is quite another. Those bits get into all 3 cylinders on that side.
Hence the "remove the spark plugs and turn it with a wrench" theory in order to not cause further damage.
An engine that's stuck is one thing and one that turns like 320 degrees in each direction before hitting something solid is another.
The spark plug may help tell a story. A Leakdown Test with air pressure might help narrow things down. It's no fun removing the wrong cylinder head.
I tend to think of valve seats because they're common but a valve guide letting go will have blue smoke.

Of course all the above is about upper cylinder issues and someone else mentioned some lower end possibilities.

At this point we don't know if the engine is stuck or if the starter just can't push it any further in the counter-clockwise direction. Hence the wrench again, you can turn in both directions. You really don't even need to remove the spark plugs. Anyone with a 3/4" box wrench can do it.

I like to do all the investigation I can before going in. We rush to thoughts of catastrophe with blue smoke and BAM in caps. I'd like to come up with a possible simple BAM scenario but my imagination is failing me.

As a fools rush in story I had a pre-conceived notion that my '60 had a dropped valve seat and with the head on the bench I discovered a valve merely stuck open in the guide. I don't think that's what we have in this case, I just like to remember that story when I'm tempted to dive in without all the information I can gather.

[Corventure Dave]

Question... Stock cast pistons???
From the 1970's people running cheap fuel causing ping and detonation, the pistons can fracture
and later one suddenly come apart. Even at idle. I would pull the plugs and check each cylinder for obstruction.
This failure would have nothing to do with rebuilt carburetors. However all the checks mentioned here would be
advised.
I have used forged Pistons for decades in order to avoid this possible piston failure.

Corventure Dave

[Frank DuVal]

Low octane fuel might have affected pistons from ping, but it would not have affected 95 HP engines, and they broke pistons too (same pistons in all 164 cu in engines)

[manofsteel]

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a TV scope for $80 and I took each spark plug ought 1 at a time and checked them. Very oily but saw no physical damage inside of pistons walls. Also no damage to the spark plugs. Should have read the replies first for I put all of the plugs back without trying to turn the engine over. Now I will take plugs back out to do that. Interesting about vapor lock but engine ran for about a minute or so before BAM and it locked up. Could it be a dropped valve? Will I be able to turn the engine over? Even if dropped valve?
I did noticed that last time when I turned engine off the drops or rather that the left side secondary carbs continues to drip gas. I thought it would stop so I don't know when it did and would that have caused the problem? Such as the vapor lock??.Thanks to all that is trying to help me out. JIM Halpin

[Dennis66]

They mentioned HYDRO - lock rather than vapor lock. The "BAM" when running is what bothers me. Watching for updates. Dennis

[Gasman63]

BAM could be read in different ways. Could it have been a backfire or pop out of the exhaust or carbs?

Or mechanical knock or...

[66vairguy]

This has been an interesting post. If the engine will not rotate, then I agree that it is time to pull the spark plugs and use a fiber camera. LOTS of blue smoke could be a broken piston oil ring or a busted piston.

[Dennis66]

So looking back over the posts: How long did it run before the "BAM"? How high did you rev it? You mentioned "Plenty of oil and clean" Was the oil above the full mark? Did it look thin? Did you check to see if it smelled like gasoline? I'm still thinking that diluted oil would probably have a lot of clatter and knocking before a rod would fail. Dennis

[SkidRo]

There's a Corvair guy who lives between Fenwick and Milton (I'm fairly certain). I am trying to find his username but I think it was on the other forum. I think it is Sarge something. If I remember correctly, he was a really good Corvair mechanic. I think he has a white LM vert.

I will try to find his name but you can look on the other forum also. Local help by someone with skills is always a bonus.

Colorsarge is his handle. I see that you spoke to him a few years ago. He is in Frankfort.