It was all so innocent – now a 180 Rebuild

[keitho64]

I find it funny how life throws curve balls at you. What started out as an innocent evening on Facebook turned into a project to build a 180 motor for my 64 Monza. About 1 year ago I ran across an ad on Facebook for a complete turbo ‘kit’ for sale. It came with the Turbo (which was rebuilt), exhaust, intake, carb and a new Otto TB-20 cam, with fail safe gear. I forgot about to and went on my merry way.

Well late this summer I decided I wanted to rebuild the engine in my 64 and remembered this turbo. I messaged the seller, he still had it, a deal was struck and now I have the turbo.

Now that I have a nice turbo setup this created another dilemma; lay up my car while doing a build or find a long block. I posted a message here and secured a 1965 180 long block, and for good measures I also picked up a 66 140 short block. See I already have a fresh set of 140 heads, a new Isky 280, I have the makings of two motors to build. The first step is the 180 and eventually I plan to pick up a LM coupe for the 140. Every time I start my LM coupe search it seems something came up and put that project on pause.

By now you are asking yourselves, what does this have to do with anything. Well, in order to keep myself motivated, I am going to post updates about my rebuild process here. This will not be a “How To” guide, but merely documenting my progress and hold myself accountable to have this completed in time for the 2025 driving season. Oh, I forgot to mention, I am in the Chicago area, so the car goes into hibernation for winter.

This first post will document the disassembly of the 180 and document what I found. I was told the motor would not turn over. I pulled the plugs out and soaked the cylinders with Kroil. I did this with the engine on a stand, rotating it 180 degrees so the Kroil soaked past the rings. To my surprise I was able to get the engine to rotate.

I noticed mice made their way into the crankcase and built a nest by cylinders 5 and 6. I spent some time with a shop vac and I was able to evict the nest. Thankfully the residents have long since moved out.

I found the top ring land on cylinder 3 to be damaged, likely caused by detonation. I assume this is the reason the motor was set to the side. What was interesting is the piston skirts, cylinders, crank and rod journals all look to be in great shape. Score number 2, a good rebuild-able motor.

Here are some pictures along the way. Over the next couple of weeks I will clean all the parts, measure the cylinder bores, disassemble the heads and do a thorough inspection. This will help me to plan out the parts list and determine what machining needs to be done.

[gbullman]

Enjoy the journey, should be fun to drive when you get it done!

[RexJohnson]

Some of your turbo parts look to be early. Have you checked the numbers to see what you have?

[caraholic4life]

At first glance it appears that Rod Number Three has a Rod Cap marked Number Five.
When looking closer, it appears that they might both be marked the same with the number Three but magnified part of the rod cap number is more obscured rather than clear.....

I noted that the crankshaft is out of the block and resting on the bench which should not be any issue for short periods of time BUT as I understand it, as solid as they may seem, long term storage for crankshafts should have them standing up rather that laying flat unless they are properly supported or they could actually deform to some degree.

I may be misinformed about this but it is what I have always been led to believe. Someone will undoubtedly, and should correct me if I am misleading you with this information.

[keitho64]

Some of your turbo parts look to be early. Have you checked the numbers to see what you have?

The Block is TI209RL and the heads are 3856762 28B and 3856762 A. I looked on Clark’s and all these numbers coincide with a 65 Turbo.

[keitho64]

At first glance it appears that Rod Number Three has a Rod Cap marked Number Five.
When looking closer, it appears that they might both be marked the same with the number Three but magnified part of the rod cap number is more obscured rather than clear.....

I noted that the crankshaft is out of the block and resting on the bench which should not be any issue for short periods of time BUT as I understand it

I looked multiple times and it is a 3 and a 5. All the rods were stamped when I opened it up. I have no idea if that would have been done at the factory, or someone did it at a later time.

As for the crank I just took it apart yesterday. I’ll have it cleaned up this week and can store it upright while all the work is being done. Thanks for the tip.

[Dennis66]

While it's a 102 and not a 180, the NOS crank for my engine was stored in it's original, deteriorated GM box for over 15 years. There were no indications that it had been stored vertically. After assembly, it runs fine. BTW, I believe Rex was talking about the actual turbo parts. There were differences between the early (150 HP) and the later 180 HP turbos. Dennis

[SpyderMan]

The exhaust housing for the turbo is the early 150 62-63 style, the air cleaner is 62-63 and the heat shield is 62-63. The heat shield will be fine in a EM as it is correct for your spare tire placement. If you post more pictures for the air cleaner I can narrow it down further. The carb is the biggest HP determination as the 65-66 carbs have a larger venturi this is where the majority of the HP bump comes from.

[jimbrandberg]

You might want to remove the valve springs to see if the valves are loose in the guides. Turbo engines are funny that way.

[keitho64]

Thanks for the clarification. Yes the Turbo is an early, not matched to the 180 long block. I am planning to run a 40mm Weber for a carb. I will also be using a waste gate, still researching that plan.

The heads will be taken apart, inspected and worn parts replaced. I should have them cleaned up by the end of the week and will share my findings.

This will definitely be a learning experience. While this is not my first engine build, it is my first Corvair motor build. I appreciate all the guidance and advice from everyone, you are all educating me. Thank you!

[jimbrandberg]

Does the crankshaft have the "&" sort of mark on the flywheel end that denotes a Nitrited crankshaft? Are the main and rod bearings STD?
With a STD Nitrited crankshaft I try to have it Magnafluxed to check for cracks and just polished at my local Crankshaft Supply.

What camshaft do you have? LM turbos started out with "891" cams like 110s and 140s then switched to "304".
How does the cam lobes and lifter faces look? Did you save the lifters in order? I use an egg carton. Could you get the lifters to come out from the outside?

You will have to come up with a philosophy to determine how much you will replace as long as you're in there. You will find folks with differing opinions and experiences.

You may want to decide if you're okay with open chamber heads before you spend a lot of money on them.

Stock LM pistons have been known to crack and break especially in turbos. When you start buying forged pistons, boring cylinders and reconditioning rods it gets expensive fast.

Even though they're the last pieces to go on you may want to figure out if you have proper turbo and carburetor in good condition now before you begin. That stuff is getting harder to come by all the time.

[Wagon Master]

I'll send you a used #3 rod for the cost of shipping if you decide you have mismatched parts in that location.

[66vairguy]

While it's a 102 and not a 180, the NOS crank for my engine was stored in it's original, deteriorated GM box for over 15 years. There were no indications that it had been stored vertically. After assembly, it runs fine.

I've stored cranks on their side for long periods and they do not BEND. If they were that flimsy they would not last long in an engine. Properly stored a crank rests on multiple points on its side to distribute the weight. I DO NOT store crankshafts on their ends since a buddy did and knocked his over on a cement floor and damaged it!!!!!!!

[66vairguy]

At first glance it appears that Rod Number Three has a Rod Cap marked Number Five.
When looking closer, it appears that they might both be marked the same with the number Three but magnified part of the rod cap number is more obscured rather than clear.....

The out of sequence rod cap number is probably due to a repair. Some who like to "balance" the rod weights will "cherry pick" from a pile of rods to get rods that are similiar in weight and ignore the cap numbers. Yes you can grind the rods to balance weight, but the amount of weight you can remove is limited before you weaken the rod.

Once a rod is made or rebuilt you MUST keep the cap with the same rod. Hence the numbers for assembly after a repair.

[vairchet]

I noted that the crankshaft is out of the block and resting on the bench which should not be any issue for short periods of time BUT as I understand it, as solid as they may seem, long term storage for crankshafts should have them standing up rather that laying flat unless they are properly supported or they could actually deform to some degree.

I may be misinformed about this but it is what I have always been led to believe. Someone will undoubtedly, and should correct me if I am misleading you with this information.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered a broken crankshaft after it's been stored horizontally inside a well packaged container:

[scottymac]

What stamping does your '66 140 crankcase have? I haven't given up finding an RZ crankcase. Thanks for checking! Scott