EM - Axle rubbing on A-Arm opening

[American Mel]

I get a "This video is private." message.
I think you need to change some YouTube settings.

[joelsplace]

Worked for me.
The front of the engine does look low for some reason. The side seals should be flat.

[Dennis66]

Video worked fine for me as well. What I did notice, and you mentioned is that the front of your engine appears low. I know you have new mounts, and they LOOK correct, but they also seem to be sticking down kind of low (the rubber part). IIRC, Clark's lists 3 different kinds of mounts: 60-63, 64, and 65-69. I know that my own '62 has one mount on one side (almost flush) and a different one on the other side (protrudes down about 3/4''). Hopefully, I can et under mine this weekend and take some pictures and measurements. Eventually, I will be replacing my mounts once I figure out exactly what I need (probably both $$$). Dennis

[jimbrandberg]

I will say again that 1 5/16" toe-out sounds like a crazy number and having to move the powertrain back 1" sounds like a crazy number. I've just never encountered something that excessive. Something has to be terribly wrong.
FC front mounting brackets are about 4 " longer. EM and LMs are about the same length but different, I can't picture how.
I'm interested in your predicament for learning purposes.

[Dennis66]

The video shows he doesn't have an inch to go back. I was mainly focusing on the up-down factor with the axle clearance and then the engine seals. Personally, I've always done my toe settings measuring from the inner sidewall of the tires at a certain height from the floor, this ranges from heavy trucks to cars to weird equipment. Dennis

[Wittsend]

I seem to have a unique problem that even the great Corvair people here are struggling for an answer. So, I will do what I can do to move the engine both upward and rearward. I have a lot of things in mind where fractions here and fractions there may come close to the total numbers I need. And frankly I'm hoping the toes shim I actually need is less than my rough "Guestimation" I did with the carpenters square.

It will take me a week or more to do everything so this thread can go down for a nap - for a while. Thanks again for all your replies. There are over 50 replies at this point and they don't come out of thin air. You all invest the time to make them happen.

[Frank DuVal]

Corvair people here are struggling for an answer.

Yes! This is certainly a have to see it in person dilemma. Buying air line tickets?

I think your math is off, but maybe it is just the car....

Do you have a copy of the Junkyard Primer? If so, can you see if you have an early or late PG crossmember? This should affect drivetrain height. Now how it could have been swapped.... Makes no sense.

[joelsplace]

Not related but I noticed your throttle rod is really bent. Maybe if you straighten it you will have a visual clue to the front height. It should exit the tunnel centered and be parallel to the ground.

[Wittsend]

.... EM and LMs are about the same length but different, I can't picture how.

... Do you have a copy of the Junkyard Primer? If so, can you see if you have an early or late PG crossmember? This should affect drivetrain height. Now how it could have been swapped.... Makes no sense. [/color]

As to the Primer pictures (thanks for sending them) It is obvious that I have an early PG crossmember. It isn't square corners like the late version and it isn't wide like the FC version. However, my car has the trans cooler and it is obvious someone did some cutting on the crossmember to get the cooler line fittings on. The early PG seems to have a smaller, angled opening (I assume to hook up a trans cooler???) but someone HAD to cut the opening on mine like the FC version to get the fittings installed. So, was there a variation in the rear cover on the PG as to where the cooler fittings were?

In the picture below the red lines represent the area that someone cut out, the black circles represent roughly where the fittings connect (and why they had to cut) and the blue encased area is the triangulated (with rounded corners) of the cable pass thru that also differentiates it with the FC version.

Below is my actual crossmember I'm making an all out effort to raise the engine at the trans mount by any means possible. I have elongated the bolt holes to get it up as high as possible. I'm going to use Allen head bolts so I'm not rotating a 16th of a turn at a time with an open end wrench.

Below I have longer bolts (the Allen head I mentioned above) and will use them with these THICK shims I just made with a drill press, horizontal saw and a file. Hopefully between that and the existing shims I can get proper Toe In. If I run out of room at the back mount I'll deal with that later. One thing at a time.

A lot of people probably think I'm nuts but I actually enjoy making things like this. It all started when I was a 7 year old kid and saw the original "Flight of the Phoenix" where they modified a plane and flew it out of the desert. If I can't figure it out, I'll find another way, and I'll make it rather than buy it.

[joelsplace]

Be careful. The holes in the Powerglide the mount bolts to are fragile. I've had them break off.
Did you do a sanity check on your calculations with a tape across the tires?

[Matt]

I've had exactly the same problem for the last thirteen years, but only because I haven't driven the car so haven't spent any time sorting it out. I will dive under the car tonight and see what I can see. There is a thread on CCF about it, but the pictures are long gone (thanks, Photobucket).

https://corvaircenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420529

[66vairguy]

This has been an interesting thread to follow.

I finally recalled an issue like this. I'm not saying this is you're problem, but the car with an issue had been in an accident and the drivetrain support at the transmission was BENT. Not common, but apparently it happens.

[Wittsend]

Thank you for the link Matt. It was almost like reading my story - except from the past. I've been busy the past few days (image below) implementing means by which I get the engine back and upward. All are reversible. In the process I found one of the U-Joints to be loose. So, I'll be replacing them both and am awaiting their delivery. I'll report back when I get it all together.

[Wittsend]

OK, take things apart far enough and issues become revealed. Under the tattered bushing was a cracked crossmember. I clean the metal, bent it back and with a plate curved behind the worse part welded it up. Sorry no post weld pictures taken. I made these rubber bushings to replace the bad ones. The bushing on the other side was at least serviceable but for some reason the outward facing ones were totally thrashed on both the left and right sides.

Since getting the Powerpack elevated and rearward was the goal I slotted the metal trans crossmember and for more adjustment rearward slotted the rear engine mount bracket though as the picture illustrates I did not need all the range. I also turned about .200 (can't remember exactly) off the lower area of the rubber trans mount.

I made up an aluminum shim to moved the Powerpack rearward. By happenstance the metal measured .780. When I assembled everything I used four of the five factory shims that were already there. That totals .060 x 4=.240 + .780 = 1.020 of shim. This is giving me roughly 3/8"+ Toe In which is a significant move from 1-5/8" Toe Out. I want to get the Toe In down to 1/8" (factory is 0 to 1/4 Toe In) and I'm inclined to think that removing one of the four factory steel shims will get me near there. I made up 1/4" plates to go between the crossmember and the A-Arm. The reason is that the backing plate needs to track with the brake drum and given the differences that were existing these help to move the backing plate closer to being perpendicular with the drum.

Given that I had 5 degrees of negative camber I added a .40 rubber spring pad that I had. That less than 1/2" rubber basically changed the car from 5 degrees Negative camber to 5 degrees Positive camber! I'm sure elevating the engine was a contributor but to what degree I don't know.

This was the past weeks work and I wrote this up on Friday but didn't have time to post it. So, I'll make another post right after this one to report today's (Saturday) progress.

[Wittsend]

This post is associated with the post above and is better understood reading the previous post first:

After Cars &Coffee this morning (Saturday) I swapped out the .40 spring pads I had put in. Those pads have a metal ring embedded in them and seemed like they were a bit too wide for the spring cup. The rubber was also rather stiff. I had another spring pad that was .275 thick, had no embedded metal ring and was somewhat better conforming to the spring cup as well as feeling like a softer rubber. It made a small difference. The Positive 5 degrees camber going to positive 3 degrees. The good news is that the axles seem to be centered (or slightly above center) where as before they had worn a 3/16" groove in the bottom of the A-Arm.

Where is all this at:

I'm glad that the axles are basically centered now but I want to get the 3 degrees positive camber to at least 0 and preferably 1/2 degree negative. The Toe In I want to get to 1/8". It seems small fractional changes make a BIG difference. The spring pad change was roughly 1/8" and it changed the camber 2 degrees. With the slotted crossmember and the turned down trans mounts giving a combined upward movement of under 1/2" it made a significant difference in the axle clearance (a good thing) but likely also contributed to the flip/flop on the camber going from large negative to large positive. So, my guess is that it will be like a dog chasing its tail to get some blend of reduced shim for the toe, lowering the Powerpack to reduce positive camber but concerns about axle clearance and the backing plate to brake drum alignment. This swing axle stuff sure is persnickety and interacting. The fun never ends.

[flamingchariots]

Of course there's no way of knowing, but do you suppose the cracked crossmember could have been caused by someone imitating Dukes of Hazzard stunts?
Fascinating topic.


Kevin
Medina, OH