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but is the public willing to consider and accept new nuclear plant technologies and set aside their fear of nuclear power plant accidents?
Here in Virginia we started embracing nuclear electricity production in the early 60s and have not looked back! Only the reluctance of other states through federal oversight have limited our continuation of building more nuclear boilers to feed more generators. We are still one of the lower electrical rate states, even after paying to clean up coal ash ponds.
Shall we talk pump storage too? I think we were the first with this technology also.
A little ancient history. I remember reading about the Great Transcontinental Car Race challenge between MIT and Caltech in 1968 in Road & Track. Caltech had a VW bus and GM gave MIT a LM Corvair. A search found not much out there on the web except the SAE tech paper (but they want $37 for a copy). Here is a blurb on BaT with the R&T article embedded at the bottom:
So now we are going to mine the sea floor to dig up all those poisonous minerals to make the batteries. how is that eco-friendly? Kill the ocean and you kill the planet. Making batteries lighter with more energy is like trying to put the amount of explosive energy in a stick of dynamite into a firecracker. the laws of physics will not allow it. battery power technology has pretty much reached its peak, and it will never meet our countries transportation needs much less the worlds. the whole thing is a pipe dream trying to solve a climate crisis that does not exist. Stop watching PBS (Pure Bull Shit) and listening to NPR (National Propaganda Network). We have all the energy we need with oil ,gas and coal and all the technology to use it efficiently to meet our needs. And we do not have to drive around in unexploded bombs either.
And we do not have to drive around in unexploded bombs either.
Ah, you are right, we should get that FUEL tank out of our Corvairs right now. I've seen movies. Internet says between 10 and 14 sticks of dynamite per gallon of gasoline is equivalent explosive force. But, you do have to atomize the gasoline and then ignite it to get the big bang (see operation of internal combustion engine), just like you have to make the battery fail in order to make it explode.
But that's OK, just keep watching Faux news for the latest in homophobic worries about electric cars.
Moderators, please remove both our news network comments as they do NOTHING for the Corvair discussion.
The article on the VW vs Corvair electric trip across the country was a great read!
He didn't say anything about watching any other news or being afraid of homosexuals. Listen to either of the mentioned sources for 5 minutes and you'll see he is correct.
Also a gasoline tank doesn't explode or burst into flames when hit like batteries do.
159 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
joelsplace wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:00 pm
He didn't say anything about watching any other news or being afraid of homosexuals. Listen to either of the mentioned sources for 5 minutes and you'll see he is correct.
Also a gasoline tank doesn't explode or burst into flames when hit like batteries do.
Well Joel I guess you never read about the PINTO explosions due to rear hits to the gas tank. Then there was the lawsuit against GM for the pickups that EXPLODED when hit in the side just behind the drivers door. These were trucks ordered with the factory auxiliary fuel tank. Nobody survived those incidents. There also was the issue of the rear gas tanks being crushed on Jeeps in an accident.
I give Ford credit for being the first to U.S. manufacture to mount the gas tank under the rear seat area (not under the rear seat) - farthest from possible crushing in an accident. There was also the issue of gas tank filler necks breaking off in accidents requiring connectors that would not separate from the tank. So there is a lot of history of gas tank problems in accidents.
Being old I saw a car hit from behind and go up in flames from the gas tank BEFORE anyone could get out. Not something I ever want to see again.
Bottom line -- gas or batteries you take you chances.
Years ago I believe that the show 20/20 did a story about the square body GM trucks exploding. Several months later while the lawyers were still talking NBC did a retraction of that story. It seems that they hired someone mad at GM to do the story. Gm searched wrecking yards until they found the car and truck from the story and then they went frame by frame thru the film. You could see where the explosion happened just before the impact. The truck also had an aftermarket gas cap. I didn't hear how much that cost NBC. It is amazing that alot of delivery trucks still have gas tanks on the outside of the frame with nothing protecting them.
I just did some research on the Pinto and I couldn't find a single example of them exploding. They did tend to leak gas and catch on fire in rear end collisions. It is very very difficult to make a gas tank explode. The only gasoline explosion I've ever seen was a gasoline tanker truck that was in a huge fire that burned for hours. It finally got so hot it exploded. I've never seen one explode in a car and I've seen people try really hard to get one to explode. One guy finally managed it by pumping in air and shooting it with incendiary rounds.
Lithium batteries will sometimes explode if crushed but will always violently combust unless they are completely dead.
They can also do the same thing spontaneously if they have defects.
Much much more dangerous than gasoline.
There are a lot of videos on YouTube of them being crushed so you can see what happens.
Here's one that caught fire while being charged:
Here's one exploding when crushed:
159 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
Listen to either of the mentioned sources for 5 minutes and you'll see he is correct.
You know, this is not a place to get personal and discuss politics, but since YOU mentioned it, what do you listen to?
BTW, he is not correct either! Only a closed . . . oh never mind, I was going to bring up the flat earth and moon landings are fake from a previous discussion. Subjects of great humor but not intelligence.
If Lithium batteries are so dangerous, why do so many people want them in their tools/phones/etc etc.??? We had those Ni-Cads that worked just fine, No need to improve on technology,....
Now can we please get back to talking about Corvairs?
Frank your replies are logical, but you can't win against folks that engage in "magical thinking". Best to avoid them as you can't win with irrational folks.
A buddy used to say "Don't waste your time trying to teach a pig to whistle. Pigs CANNOT whistle and it annoys the pig if you try".
I think, perhaps, that lithium batteries are a necessary evil. When treated properly and when they work correctly, they can provide a lot of rechargeable energy storage that modern society has found to be necessary. They kind of remind me of the very large fuel storage and power needed for the Space Shuttle. Treated and managed properly, the amount of energy needed to get the job done justifies the risks involved. But, if something goes wrong...
Perhaps nuclear power generation is similar. Society has increasing needs for energy production in large quantities. Fossil fuels satisfied this need for a long time, but there is a concern about pollution. Wind and solar power generation lacks capacity and only provides power in an inconsistent manner. Early methods of power generation using nuclear fuel sources satisfies the need for large amounts of consistent power generation, but hazards and waste products can be dangerous and frustrating. Perhaps technological advances would solve those problems to a satisfactory degree, but fear and uncertainty created barriers to progress that seemed to be politically untenable.
The PBS series Frontline produced some interesting updates on nuclear power research and progress made that seems to promise significant safety in future designs, but progress in research and development has been slow... probably due to a lack of government support as politicians distance themselves from an unpopular subject. As a result our need for clean energy sources seems to have placed society in a real quandary — a state of not being able to decide what to do about conflicting desires and needs for large, portable sources of clean energy that is safe and affordable.
Brad Bodie Lake Chatuge, North Carolina 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
This is an interesting thread. Its fun to read folks' perspective on EVs and converting old cars. I have to say... when I finished my Corvair EV conversion 4 yrs ago, I got alot of flak from the old-timers at car shows. They would ask my range; I would tell them 90 miles and they would scoff and roll their eyes. And if they did engage with me in a conversation, it usually got political, and I got a comment about being a government sell-out. They repeated all the same concerns I am reading in this thread.
But... only 4yrs later, things have changed a bunch. Now, those same old-timers at the shows are genuinely interested. When they ask about my range, and I still say 90 miles, they nod their heads and say, "not bad". It's been a remarkable change to witness.
I think often about why this change in opinion/reaction has happened. Ultimately, I blame government mandates. I guess, in the end, I am a big fan of these mandates. It's no different than mandating the right for women to vote... it seems crazy now that it hasn't ALWAYS been like this, but it wasn't, and it took a heavy hand to make that change. Folks just don't like change, but when it happens, they get used to it. Companies figure it out. Technology is invented. Jobs are created. It takes time.
There was an earlier comment about "moving the tail pipe" if we move to more EVs. You are right... this is exactly what driving EVs does. But now, instead of millions of poorly maintained, somewhat in-efficient, small emission sources, we will have 100s of well maintained, super-efficient, multi-sourced (some fossil fuels, some wind, some solar, etc...) large emission sources. This is a WAY better way to optimize emissions and energy usage... rather than leaving it up to individuals to keep their cars healthy (folks on this forum may do a decent job, but most folks don't give a hoot). OR, we have to contrive large systems of inspections, regulations, emissions testing, etc... which everyone complains about anyway.
The amount of money being used at universities and companies to find better ways to store energy, is awesome. I am excited to see what the smart folks come up with... and all thanks to the demand for EVs... which is in part thanks to the mandates.
My electric corvair has been so awesome. Its incredibly reliable. I have had ZERO motor or battery issues. Since the conversion, I have changed the u-joints, and replaced a rear wheel bearing. I also replaced the battery pack. I was using Tesla model S batteries from 2012. I bought batteries from a 2015 model s and put them in. What did i do with the battery I took out? I used them for another EV conversion. And they still have over 90% of their capacity. And when I decide to replace those with something newer, I will put the 2012 batteries in my house as a power wall. And after they are done being a power wall, i will recycle them. Thats the kind of tinkering I like to do.
Old EVs are not for everyone. At shows, I often tell folks that its value depends on how you use the car. If you drive an hour to the coast, then spend the day driving down a few hundred miles to a small coastal town, then an EV conversion is not for you. If they drive the car all over town, to shows, and out the coast to spend the night? Then its a great option.
and one more thing that might ruffle some feathers... as a corvair owner, i felt an obligation to read Unsafe at Any Speed. How many have read it? Its a GREAT book and I am now a big fan of Ralph Nader. He said alot of things that needed to be said, of the auto industry back then, and man alive... I am glad he said them. Our driving lives are way better because of it.
summersc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm
and one more thing that might ruffle some feathers... as a corvair owner, i felt an obligation to read Unsafe at Any Speed. How many have read it? Its a GREAT book and I am now a big fan of Ralph Nader. He said alot of things that needed to be said, of the auto industry back then, and man alive... I am glad he said them. Our driving lives are way better because of it.
I am no fan of Ralph Nader, but I am not a Nader Hater. Fact is many of the concerns in his book were valid. After a number of accidents due to folks driving a car with the P and R on one side of the N vs. the old Hydramatic pattern that put R on the other side next to L, regulations were passed to standardize the automatic transmission shift pattern. There were some other common sense fixes. Sadly it all seems to be lost as anybody that drives different modern cars knows controls are all over the place and different from one car to the next. The incidence of folks run over by their own cars since they were not in Park has gone up.
Get in a new car you've never driven (rental) with that PITA touch display and see how long it takes to turn on the A/C or even tune the radio. Distracting to the point of being dangerous, yet the government agency that should regulate stuff like this seems to be "on vacation". Operators manual - hardee har har -- you have to go online to read it.
Get in a new car you've never driven (rental) with that PITA touch display and see how long it takes to turn on the A/C or even tune the radio. Distracting to the point of being dangerous, yet the government agency that should regulate stuff like this seems to be "on vacation". Operators manual - hardee har har -- you have to go online to read it.
This is the worst part of driving a rental! How do I???? Turn on the lights????????????? Why is everyone blinking their lights at me while I am now in a city at dark? The dashboard is lit just fine. What do you mean they were not left on AUTOMATIC?????
Out comes the owners wait the Youtube search begins.....
Rented a car last summer, and just made arrangements to rent one in Michigan this coming September. First thing is check the owner's manual for important things. Annoying thing to me was blind spots. Car had more windows, but by time there was 2-1/2'' of interior, you couldn't see out of some of the windows. Then there's the annoying new vehicles at work - Yeah, radios. Has the operator's noise preference set and turned up, but it takes me 5 minutes to figure out how to turn it off. And when we change oil, each one has a different reset procedure.
Regarding Nader, I have learned so much about him and what he was really pushing way back then. I was just telling some of this to a couple of friends who were over and commented on the Corvairs. Dennis
We are still one of the lower electrical rate states, even after paying to clean up coal ash ponds.
We had those Ni-Cads that worked just fine, No need to improve on technology,.... 
1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
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