Electric Corvair ---

[66vairguy]

A few of us Corvair folks were talking about the possibility of converting a Corvair to an electric vehicle. Yeah I know this seems unacceptable to some, but I'd rather see a Corvair converted to EV than go to the scrap yard.

Coincidentally I'm looking for a new car and decided an EV just isn't practical YET. I have a few friends with hybrid vehicles and they are ALL positive about them. Great fuel mileage, quiet around town, quick off the line. For a long trip you just fill the gas tank. So that is the route I'll go.

Meanwhile the news has been full of breakthrough battery technology, yet nothing seems to be cost effective YET. HOWEVER --- in the next few years proven improvements will make EV's lighter (they are heavy) and speed up charging, and they will COST LESS to make vs. a gasoline powered car.

The WSJ has a good article about battery improvements. See https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-b ... _lead_pos8

[erco]

I own a 2014 Nissan Leaf EV and my '67 Corvair. My two favorite cars I've ever owned. The Leaf is the perfect short-range car. Dirt cheap (now worth ~$6K) and drives great. 50K miles, so max range is down to ~75 miles now. Wife still has a gasser for long trips.

My Leaf was in a mild fender bender last year and that TOTALED it per the insurance company. It still drove perfectly but no body shop wanted to touch it for fear of downstream fire liability. A shame, I considered fixing it myself but I was warned that getting a salvage title on an EV would be a painful process, so I took the payout and bought another 2014 Leaf... almost the same car.

Long story short, I suspect the scrapyards are full of similar cars with good batteries & motors that might be useful for classic car conversions. Of course, dealing with 400V batteries, cables and power management requires a whole new skillset.

[Dennis66]

When my '67 500 got totalled, I took the payoff and kept the car (had recently done a full valve job on the engine). I bought a '66 Monza that was in process of being converted to electric (old school electric conversion - 1978). Put my engine and tranny in it, but turned around and sold it before completing everything. Dennis

[erco]

s in process of being converted to electric (old school electric conversion - 1978).

Old school conversions were often a B-29 48VDC DC starter motor and a dozen or so car batteries switched via contactor into various series-parallel arrangements. Spooky sparky!

[Nashfan]

A basic problem with a all electric Corvair is that the body just doesnt allow for a lot of room for batterys so the range ends up being fairly limited unless radical surgery is done. I do think it would be pretty cool to do a hybrid though. Kind of wild what can happen when hybrid tech is really pushed and developed. In F-1 they've managed to get the thermal efficiency of the engine up to 51%... the engine accelerates so damn hard using an electric turbo that the 200hp helper motor is in standby most of the time. Those engines are amazing! 850 hp from a 1500 cc engine. Its static compression is 18:1, and are rules limited to 25psi(!!!) How do they keep from blowing them up? at least part of the trick is to shut the intake valves way early before BDC. They have a crafty way to pre-heat the fuel so it will ignite as fast as it can... the overall fuel air ratio at full power is a crazy ass 30:1. Because they've gotten such output from the engine and because the electric helper motor isnt doing much besides adding weight, they will be reducing the power output of the engine down to 500hp. Further reducing the fuel usage. The use of an electric turbo is what makes this all possible. Its actually a "regular" turbo with an electric motor that more or less zero's out inertia and because the exhaust has so much energy in it, ends up sending a lot of power back to the battery. Having a turbo work like this means it can stay caught up or ahead of the engine without being a huge drag on the battery.

[Dennis66]

So is that an electric supercharger? Must be quite a system. I recall one of the gearhead shows doing did a test on the aftermarket "electric superchargers" and they are worthless. Doesn't mean that a properly built system (expensive) couldn't work though. Dennis

[Nashfan]

No, its a real Turbocharger, meaning the exhaust "runs" the compressor, but has a big powerfull electric motor between the exhaust turbine and the inlet compressor and can spin the turbo to 200000 rpm. Garret has been a pioneer on these systems

https://www.garrettmotion.com/knowledge ... ric-turbo/

[TimeMachineParadox]

A basic problem with a all electric Corvair is that the body just doesnt allow for a lot of room for batterys so the range ends up being fairly limited unless radical surgery is done.

I've been thinking about how an FC could be a pretty good candidate for an EV conversion. The central level floor would seem to serve as a pretty good place to put a battery pack on (or even strapped under). It wouldn't be too difficult to modify an old Tesla (or other EV) battery pack to fit in this space. The HV controls, DC-DC converter, battery cooling systems, etc would probably also fit under the differential cover.

[66vairguy]

No, its a real Turbocharger, meaning the exhaust "runs" the compressor, but has a big powerfull electric motor between the exhaust turbine and the inlet compressor and can spin the turbo to 200000 rpm. Garret has been a pioneer on these systems

https://www.garrettmotion.com/knowledge ... ric-turbo/

Years ago I read about some of the auto manufacturers (mostly upscale Euro cars) using these "electric assist" turbochargers to eliminate "turbo lag" years ago. I didn't know they were still in use!

[66vairguy]

A basic problem with a all electric Corvair is that the body just doesnt allow for a lot of room for batterys so the range ends up being fairly limited unless radical surgery is done.

I've been thinking about how an FC could be a pretty good candidate for an EV conversion. The central level floor would seem to serve as a pretty good place to put a battery pack on (or even strapped under). It wouldn't be too difficult to modify an old Tesla (or other EV) battery pack to fit in this space. The HV controls, DC-DC converter, battery cooling systems, etc would probably also fit under the differential cover.

It could be done, but I'm guessing it will only get easier (and less expensive) as time passes. Being old I've seen many automotive trends start off slowly, and with lots of detractors, then slowly improve and surpass expectations.
If during the early 80's you said cars would meet emissions standards and make in excess of 400HP, be easy to drive, get reasonably fuel mileage, not cost exotic car prices, then folks would have though you a fool, or worse.

[bbodie52]

If you want to read more on electric Corvairs, search for electrovair using the Search tool at the top of the Corvair Forum screen.

Unfortunately, many of the photograph and video links have been broken, as the original Internet posts are no longer on the Web. I saved some of the photographs of the GM Electrovair II, and the High Voltage Hot Rods Electrovair III, which I believe was excessively expensive due to the battery costs. As far as I can tell the Electrovair III project was apparently abandoned. The car lacked any form of passenger compartment heater or defroster, and the maximum distance limitations likely made the expensive Electrovair III cost-prohibitive and impractical.

Personally, I believe that the politicians are very much an impractical group, as they are trying to mandate electric passenger cars and trucks without truly looking at the excessively high costs, the lack of raw materials to produce batteries on such a large scale, the ultimate impact on the national power grid and its inability to handle the huge power generation load that would occur if all passenger cars and commercial trucks were forced to switch to electric vehicles. Electricity generation comes primarily from fossil fuels, and the capacity for significant power generation from solar and wind power would never reach satisfactory levels. So without a huge increase in nuclear power generation and a massive overhaul and redesign of the power distribution grid,there is no practical way to abandon gasoline and diesel vehicle power. Current technology and natural resource limitations for a massive supply of batteries will not support such a change.

Electrovair III

Electrovair Power Train Installed

ElectroVair - In Progress

Battery boxes have been fabricated and the mount for the speed controller. We will be starting the wiring soon

ElectroVair - In Progress

ElectroVair Adaptor Plate to Mate Electric Motor to the Corvair Torque Convertor

ElectroVair Adaptor Plate to Mate Electric Motor to the Corvair Torque Convertor

[Phil Dally]

This electric Rampside had about a 50 mile limit.

[66vairguy]

Brad -- Just for fun I follow the "business" side of the EV car and all your concerns are being addressed. First thing to know is this is not a bunch of ignorant folks FORCING things on the public. The automotive business is HUGE and folks are looking at all the issues to MAKE THIS PROFITABLE! Simply put the public won't buy EV's unless they are as practical and cost effective as ICE vehicles. The majority of folks want a reliable, easy to use, and cost effective vehicle. Few care or know what engine makes it GO. As far as "government help", China's government is pouring money into their EV auto companies and now it's paying off as their EV companies are profitable and they now MAKE AND SELL more EV's than any other country!!!! No coincidence Warren Buffet's company owns BYD stock. See https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023 ... ve-review/

For YEARS the power companies have been planning power grid expansion for EV's, the battery designs are evolving since the company that makes better battery for the lower cost wins. There are growing pains as is apparent by the lack of infrastructure at this point. GM goofed by moving too fast into EV's to avoid the cost of making Hy-brid cars, which the public has decided is the way to go at the moment. That said the Hy-brid is a much better vehicle now due EV development that has improved batteries and motor controls. In China they have EV's were you pull into a spot and in a few minutes your battery is replaced with a charged unit. In the U.S.A. parking structure companies are planning reserved charging were you come to work, park, then a robot comes to your car and charges it while you are at work.

It is easy to look at all the negatives to prove ones point, but all new technologies have set backs, but ultimately the number crunchers know EV's will cost less to make and sell!! Battery charging will get faster and they will hold more energy per weight and size. Batteries that use other materials easier to find are already in development. NO this will not all happen in a year or so, but it will happen. Yes the government will need to help/subsidize. The question is "Do you want to buy a car made in China or a car made in the U.S.A.?"

[toms73novass]

In the true spirit of hot rodding, electric is natural progression. I think one battery technology (weight/charge time/$$) mature you will see much more in older cars.

I have a 2018 Chevy volt (electric with gas generator backup) and it probably is the nicest daily driver I have ever owned. 95% of my driving is electric but have gas if needed. I have solar on my house and plug in EV was a no brainer. Even if I run on gas it still gets 40mpg and it goes like the dickens for what it is. Also has 100,000mi ten year electric powertrain warranty.

With that said there is still something that gives me the tingles like a NA engine with a nice exhaust!!

[bbodie52]

What is the advantage of an electric vehicle? If the goal is to reduce the usage of fossil fuels in trucks and cars, we will still need large capacity electricity generation facilities and a power grid to handle all of that additional electric current. Solar and wind power generation fails in that it cannot continually produce power reliably, and the power generated is not produced in enough volume to support all of that continuous industrial-level high-current draw needed by charging stations to recharge each EV in a reasonably short period of time on a daily basis. If the additional power generation facilities burn fossil fuels, aren't we simply moving the large number of individual vehicle tailpipes to centrally located generating plants as they produce their own emissions to generate all that additional power? Nuclear power generation on a large scale could handle the load increases, but is the public willing to consider and accept new nuclear plant technologies and set aside their fear of nuclear power plant accidents?

And what about the unique and rare materials needed to produce those very special rechargeable large capacity batteries for all those Electric Vehicles. Can "mother earth" provide those rare materials insufficient quantities to satisfy the needs of millions of electric cars and trucks? The materials needed for massive production of the electric motors needed are also in question. The technology and mining resources needed for electric vehicle production in massive volume are still in question and are an evolving technology, as are nuclear power plants and power grid upgrades to provided the needed infrastructure. I doubt we are ready to absorb all of these global changes on a politically mandated timetable that assumes that all of these issues will be magically resolved within their politically mandated dreams! And what about commercial aircraft? Heavy batteries or long extension cords will not convert that global industry to electricity!

The world took a while to switch from horse drawn vehicles to gasoline and diesel-fueled vehicles. I think the conversion to electricity-based vehicles will present us with massive issues that have not yet been resolved.

Rare earths and EVs — it’s not about batteries

https://www.batterypowertips.com/rare-e ... eries-faq/

[66vairguy]

Brad - Your concerns are valid and I have little doubt the government mandates will be rolled back or delayed. The fuel mileage mandate was rolled back recently due the fact the automotive industry presented valid data to show the target date was unrealistic, BUT IT IS ATTAINABLE. Like being married, compromise and negotiation are required to keep things going.

in some places solar, wind, and geothermal, are supplying the majority of electricity, but what about down periods. Several companies are proposing "storage" of energy WITHOUT using batteries. This is all in the business news and while some of it will not pan out, investors are demanding concept proof and working models that can be scaled up economically. Some of it looks financially effective.

The newer "safe" small nuclear reactors look promising, but yes the public is weary of nuclear and the waste issue.

BTW -- the Chinese now dominate the rare earths market and are starting deep sea floor mining that could provide more than adequate rare earths. For some reason, that our business folks can't fathom, a few Republicans in congress prevented the U.S.A. from joining the international treaty on sea floor access. So now these U.S.A. companies are going to other countries to invest since technically a U.S.A company cannot make a LEGAL claim to deep sea floor resource beyond our 200 nautical mile economic exclusion zone!! Companies are going to countries that have treaty rights! One thing that businesses do not like is a lack of protection that treaties and contracts bring. Ask an oil executive!