8409 crank with ? in end bushing area

[vairguy63]

Looking at some cranks I have for the 110 build and one has these gears? teeth? In the end. It looks like it’s part of the crank but could just be rusted at the end so it looks like 1 piece. Doesn’t match up to the teeth in the output shaft for a PG so not sure...

I’ve only ever done 4spds before with the input shaft bushing. Any help appreciated!

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[66vairguy]

Ted must be working or he'd post.

I suspect that is a roller pilot bearing. Some have tried them and most modern cars use them. HOWEVER - if they fail they almost always damage the crank and input shaft surfaces, possibly to the point of making them unusable!! Roller pilot bearings usually do not give an audible warning before catastrophic failure like the original solid pilot bushing. The old bushings dry out and squeal so the roller bushing was used by some to prevent that, but as stated they can cause serious damage when they fail.

The old solid oil permeable pilot bushing can will squeal if it dries out. Changing it promptly will almost always prevent any damage. For that reason most now use the old solid bushing because in effect - it has an audible warning feature. BEWARE of aftermarket parts stores bushings. Folks have reported some of the aftermarket bushing are steel/bronze and they DON'T last and can damage the input shaft. If a magnet attracts the new bushing - throw it in the trash.

The last pilot bushing I got from Clark's were correct and porous to hold oil. They should be oiled before installation. Put hole in bushing on thumb, fill with a good motor oil and use finger to squeeze on oil until it weeps out the bushing pores.

It looks like someone drilled and pinned the crank gear to the crankshaft. That's fine.

[terribleted]

I have never seen one like that. I also suspect it is some kind of pilot bearing. Could be Corvair or could even be for some transplant application.

[vairguy63]

Ted must be working or he'd post.

I suspect that is a roller pilot bearing. Some have tried them and most modern cars use them. HOWEVER - if they fail they almost always damage the crank and input shaft surfaces, possibly to the point of making them unusable!! Roller pilot bearings usually do not give an audible warning before catastrophic failure like the original solid pilot bushing. The old bushings dry out and squeal so the roller bushing was used by some to prevent that, but as stated they can cause serious damage when they fail.

The old solid oil permeable pilot bushing can will squeal if it dries out. Changing it promptly will almost always prevent any damage. For that reason most now use the old solid bushing because in effect - it has an audible warning feature. BEWARE of aftermarket parts stores bushings. Folks have reported some of the aftermarket bushing are steel/bronze and they DON'T last and can damage the input shaft. If a magnet attracts the new bushing - throw it in the trash.

The last pilot bushing I got from Clark's were correct and porous to hold oil. They should be oiled before installation. Put hole in bushing on thumb, fill with a good motor oil and use finger to squeeze on oil until it weeps out the bushing pores.

It looks like someone drilled and pinned the crank gear to the crankshaft. That's fine.

Thanks 66! Asked a guy from the club too and he said it was a roller bushing too. Yikes. Don’t see how that would work long term.

I have 4 of the brass permeable bushings sitting in 30w at all times so they soak in it for months before use. Never done the finger squish but I will now :)

Now how do I get it out? It’s going into a PG so it doesn’t need anything in there but- I use the stale bread and an old cut input shaft with mallot to get old bushings out. That won’t work for this since it doesn’t seal around those rollers. Any suggestions?

Thanks


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[vairguy63]

I have never seen one like that. I also suspect it is some kind of pilot bearing. Could be Corvair or could even be for some transplant application.

Apparently rarely seen/used according to my club contacts - and I can see why. 66vairguy makes some solid points! Thanks


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[vairguy63]

I’ve checked all the pullers I have and none will fit in the hole :/


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[terribleted]

I’ve checked all the pullers I have and none will fit in the hole :/


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I have a pilot bushing puller that works sometimes. I often have to cut one side with a hacksaw blade to get them out. That will be difficult on yours if it is steel

[Wagon Master]

Being's as there is a small seal on either side of the rollers, I'd be surprised if the bread trick didn't work. Regardless of seal condition.

[vairguy63]

Being's as there is a small seal on either side of the rollers, I'd be surprised if the bread trick didn't work. Regardless of seal condition.

Tried the bread and didn’t work. Started squishing out of the top seal ring. Going to get a puller and try that. Soaking it in PB Blaster until then to hopefully loosen the rust. What a bad idea on this type of steel bushing/bearing :/


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[Deadwolf]

Hopefully they did not machine the end of the crank to get that in there. If it had a larger diameter than the old pilot bushing they may have had to machine the opening larger. It shouldn't bother your automatic build, but it would have to be considered for a manual build.

[vairguy63]

Hopefully they did not machine the end of the crank to get that in there. If it had a larger diameter than the old pilot bushing they may have had to machine the opening larger. It shouldn't bother your automatic build, but it would have to be considered for a manual build.

You’re right. TG it’s going in a PG!

Got the puller today and after a few mods it pulled right out. Thanks for everyone’s help!

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[66vairguy]

Thanks for posting update. Glad it went well.

Sometimes folks get advice for a problem and never respond with what worked to help others.

[vairguy63]

Thanks for posting update. Glad it went well.

Sometimes folks get advice for a problem and never respond with what worked to help others.

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[joelsplace]

If the crank is machined larger it will be a problem for an automatic. The converter snout centers in the end of the crank. Corvair flex plates already tend to break so if the converter isn't centered that would be bad.