EM 63 axle bearing

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bbodie52
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »



The grinding sound is present when the car is stationary! Not a wheel bearing or differential issue, I would think. Probably related to the continuously turning input shaft connected to the clutch disc? If you hold the clutch pedal to the floor with the engine running , the car parked, and the transmission in NEUTRAL, does the grinding noise stop? (Pressing the clutch pedal to the floor should disengage the clutch pressure plate so that the pressure plate and flywheel are spinning with the crankshaft, but the clutch disc and input shaft connected to the transmission is no longer rotating. If the grinding sound is coming from the transmission input spinning with the input shaft, that noise should stop with the clutch pedal to the floor. With the clutch disengaged, nothing in the transmission would be turning, since the input shaft is no longer turning.

If the grinding noise only occurs continuously with the input shaft being driven by the engine/engaged clutch disc, I would suspect a bad bearing assembly around the Clutch Gear/Clutch Gear Bearing inside the front of the transmission. But I've never worked inside a manual transmission, so perhaps someone with more experience in this area can suggest some possibilities. In any case, see the Troubles and Remedies chart below under the heading: Noisy in Neutral with Engine Running.

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The Transmission INPUT SHAFT connects the engine crankshaft/clutch/clutch disc to the CLUTCH GEAR in the front of the transmission. That gear is always turning with the input shaft, which passes through the hollow MAINSHAFT to transfer engine power into the transmission.

The MAINSHAFT that sticks out of the rear of the transmission connects it to the differential, so that power passing through the transmission gear-set is transferred to the differential. In the differential the power changes direction 90 degrees to feed power to the rear axles.

Image

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If the problem is an internal bearing around the clutch gear, you are probably looking at rebuilding or replacing the transmission, after lowering the powertrain (Engine and Transaxle) from the car.
Corvair 4-Speed Manual Transmission - Cross Section
Corvair 4-Speed Manual Transmission - Cross Section
Manual Transmission Troubles and Remedies (1961).jpg
Attachments
1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6d - Manual 4-Speed Transmission.pdf
1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6d - Manual 4-Speed Transmission
(627.42 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
Corvair - Overhauling the 1961 4-speed Transmission.pdf
Corvair - Overhauling the 1961 4-speed Transmission
(3.48 MiB) Downloaded 19 times
Corvair and Corvair 95 Power Train Removal & Installation.pdf
Corvair and Corvair 95 Power Train Removal & Installation
(3.35 MiB) Downloaded 18 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

The video is of the car sitting on stands in 4th gear, running at idle. The noise doesn't stop when clutch is engaged while driving or on stands, braking also doesn't affect the noise while driving.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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bbodie52
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »

So with the car off of the ground, engine running in 4th gear, you hear the grinding noise. Does the noise continue with the transmission in NEUTRAL? Or does it only happen with the differential and axles turning?

Sounds like that can telegraph through different components in the drive train. A mechanic's stethoscope may help you to locate the actual source of the noise.
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

Only when diff/axles turning.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »

The noise source could be within the transmission gear set, which only is involved with the transmission in gear, or it could be in the differential. As I mentioned before, the noise can "telegraph" through the metal structures of the transmission and differential cases and other attached components.

Image

Image

Left-click two times for maximum enlargement and better viewing...
Corvair Rear Axle Troubles and Remedies - Noise Diagnosis
Corvair Rear Axle Troubles and Remedies - Noise Diagnosis
Brad Bodie
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

Well thanks! This is at least more information than I've had so far. Now to find a good Corvair mechanic.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »

:doh: :think: As I pointed out earlier, you are surrounded by CORSA club chapters, but all are at least 150 miles or more from you. Skilled Corvair mechanics are rare, but if you want to find one in the surrounding cities or near them, the best source of "local" Corvair support information is likely to be one or more of those CORSA club chapters. They may have an in-resident mechanical "expert" who is willing to tackle such a job for you at a reasonable cost, or they may be able to suggest a local auto repair shop with knowledgeable Corvair-qualified mechanics. Obtaining needed parts or used components will likely slow progress, too.
:helpsos:
Brad Bodie
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

I took this "video" this morning of me driving the car a mile down our blacktop, turning around and coming home. Phone was sitting on back seat of my car face down. You can hear the noise I've been trying to describe. Again, it's all the time, braking, clutch pushed in, taken out of gear. Turn up sound an listen to entire clip. Thanks Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhV-9VBkzRA&t=71s



I embedded your YouTube video below your link so that you could see how it is done. Note that the SHARE address is formatted differently than the regular website URL address. The share address is obtained at the YouTube website by clicking on the SHARE button below the video. Then the SHARE URL is placed between the share_youtube markers by clicking on the button at the top of your editing screen.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »

:think: If you are able to determine where the sound is specifically coming from (internally from the transmission or differential, for example), you will need to decide on the best approach to fix the problem. Obviously, your need for a repair on a classic Corvair and your rural location makes things complicated. If the fault is within the transaxle, would you consider the possibility of removing the powertrain from the vehicle yourself? Doing so may or may not be within your capabilities. I have attached a booklet that describes the process and includes many photos to help you to assess the task and work involved. I can tell you that i was able to do it by myself as a 16 year old teenager using my father's hand tools, floor jack, jack stands, and the Shop Manual. I was nervous about the possibility of dropping the heavy engine and transaxle, but I worked slowly and methodically and survived to tell the tale!

If you can take DIY approach and get the powertrain on the ground, you would then have options available to you such as replacing the defective major component (the transmission or differential, for example) with a used replacement, or you might be able to ship the item to a mechanic who can rebuild the defective item for you. Taking on such a task for yourself is a significant step, because correctly overhauling a manual transmission or differential is much-more complicated than simply removing/reinstalling the complete powertrain. There is some risk in purchasing a used transmission or differential and simply swapping the major component, because the condition of the replacement item is often unknown and not guaranteed. If the transaxle is in the process of failing, driving the car a long distance to have a mechanic repair it may not be a viable solution.

If it is determined that either your transmission or your differential has an internal failure, I have attached several references that describe powertrain removal and re-installation, differential repair, setup and overhaul, and manual transmission overhaul. Hopefully these guides, as well as the Corvair shop manual and supplements, will help you to assess the scope of the job ahead so that you can decide how you want to approach it.

CORVAIR - Heal Thyself - a DIY Approach.jpg
Image

:wrench: :chevy:
Attachments
Corvair and Corvair 95 Power Train Removal & Installation.pdf
Corvair and Corvair 95 Power Train Removal & Installation
(3.35 MiB) Downloaded 16 times
Corvair Differential Setup and Overhauling a Differential.pdf
Corvair Differential Setup and Overhauling a Differential
(1.28 MiB) Downloaded 15 times
Rebuilding the Corvair Differential.pdf
Rebuilding the Corvair Differential
(1.21 MiB) Downloaded 13 times
Overhauling the Corvair Differential Carrier.pdf
Overhauling the Corvair Differential Carrier
(2.11 MiB) Downloaded 12 times
Corvair - Overhauling the 1961 4-speed Transmission.pdf
Corvair - Overhauling the 1961 4-speed Transmission
(3.48 MiB) Downloaded 12 times
Brad Bodie
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

Got this tip today on the "other" forum. I tried it and sure enough, replicated the sound and was LOUD on the driver side, the one I didn't replace, smooth and quiet on the passenger (replaced) side. Pulled the driver side axle, disassembled as far as I could, not a sign of grease anywhere other than in the dust cover. Some silver/metal shavings on the puller ring. Way more sloppy than the one I replaced. May have stumbled onto it....new assembly ordered from California Corvairs. Kind of excited...
........................................................................................................................................................

Sounds like a bearing. Check the rear axle bearings, one at a time by jacking one side of car at a time. Unless it is a positraction!

Block the front tire and run in 3rd or 4th and see if one side is noisier than the other.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by 64powerglide »

Always replace wheel bearings in pairs. :my02:
64Powerglide, Jeff Phillips

Kalamazoo, Mi..

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bbodie52
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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by bbodie52 »

Image

Amazing how those sounds carry through the chassis, body, powertrain with little sense of direction.

Image
Mechanics stethoscopes are exactly what they look and sound like – stethoscopes that are used to track down automotive, mechanical, and other types of machine issues. ... Unusual noises and sounds can sometimes be used to diagnose and locate a problem...
The rod is for detecting metallic noise such as bearings, rocker arms, timing chain, water pump, wheel, transmission or axle etc etc .. also can be used for injectors, and relays, the hollow tube is for air leak, vacuum leak intake and exhaust leak. The rod is screwed into the plastic round box. You need to remove tube from the plastic box and connect it to the hollow tube to hear the air leak or vacuum leak, and use the rod to listen to any metallic noise. This is the same principle of the stethoscope doctors are using in the hospital which there is a part can be rotated to change to hear the different sounds air breathing and heart beat and blood flow. Do some experiments with some noises and you will find it very useful, a must for any Auto-mechanic
Glad to hear that it does not appear to be coming from inside the transaxle! :woo: :clap:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

Replaced driver side axle bearing assembly (from California Corvairs, a lot cheaper and way better part) and this fixed the noise problem.
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by terribleted »

YAY!!
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

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Re: EM 63 axle bearing

Post by RoaringRiverRanger »

That's what I said.... :)
Steve
Cassville, MO
1963 Monza Coupe 4 Speed

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