Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
I HATE intermittent issues and that is what I am dealing with now. I have a 61 Monza, with a powerglide transmission. On any given day the car starts absolutely beautifully, often in the morning I just reach in and turn the key and it starts right up. The issue is every once in a while, totally randomly you turn the key and NOTHING happens. There is no click on the solenoid, the dash lights don't really dim, nothing. I have tried jiggling wires on neutral safety switch, run the gear selector up and down, tried jiggling wires on ignition switch to NO avail. Then a minute later turn the key and the car starts right up like there in nothing wrong.
Last experience I went out to move the car into the garage. It didn't start on first try so when I tried the second time again nothing, repeated attempts and still nothing. I walked into the house and came back 20 minutes later reached in through the drivers window and turned the key, and it fired right up.
This experience is very frustrating. Anyone have similar experiences?
Last experience I went out to move the car into the garage. It didn't start on first try so when I tried the second time again nothing, repeated attempts and still nothing. I walked into the house and came back 20 minutes later reached in through the drivers window and turned the key, and it fired right up.
This experience is very frustrating. Anyone have similar experiences?
Current owner
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
- terribleted
- Posts: 4584
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
Sounds like there is a loss of contact somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter. Since you have wiggled the connections at the neutral safety and ignition switch with no help I would suggest checking the wiring plugs between the engine harness and the main body harness and the main body harness and the dash harness as well as the connections between the engine harness and the 2 wire starter harness and the wires form the 2 wire harness and the solenoid. Might be corrosion or wires at the solenoid in poor condition. Corrosion in these connectors is common. Start by checking the engine to main body harness plug as this is the one that gives the most issues, followed by the 2 wire starter harness. If corrosion is evident cleaning can often help but the best solution is to replace the effected harnesses with new ones as new ones will likely not give troubles for 40 or 50 years and any cleaning of the connections may give short lived results.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
- bbodie52
- Corvair of the Month
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- Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
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Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
In the schematic diagram illustration below, i tried to focus attention on the beginning (Ignition Switch) and end (Starter Solenoid) that are connected together via a 12 Gauge Violet (12V) wire. The beginning and ending wire connections at the Ignition Switch and at the Starter Solenoid are both labeled "S". Battery voltage (12 VDC) enters the ignition switch at the terminal labeled "R". When the switch is turned to the ON position, voltage is applied to the ignition coil positive terminal to power the ignition system. Further rotation of the switch key to START applies battery voltage to the "S" terminal, to energize the starter solenoid and crank the engine. HOWEVER, if you follow the 12V wire from the ignition switch "S" terminal, you will see that with a Corvair that has a Powerglide Automatic Transmission the circuit takes a detour through the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH and then continues on to the starter solenoid. This voltage can only pass through the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH if the shift lever is in the NEUTRAL position. The engine cannot be successfully cranked by the starter motor if the shift lever is in any position other than NEUTRAL.
Your problem appears to be with an intermittent connection when the starter is supposed to be cranking the engine. Possibilities:
To test the starter and bypass the ignition switch, the Neutral Safety Switch, and the rest of the wiring harness, a remote starter switch can be connected at the solenoid or at the 2-wire harness connector in the engine compartment.
Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing. Click a second time for maximum enlargement...
If you determine that the Neutral Safety switch needs adjustment, the procedure can be found in the attached 1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6e - Automatic Transmission, page 6E-4.
Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease can sometimes improve the electrical connection in older metal connectors...
CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968
Your problem appears to be with an intermittent connection when the starter is supposed to be cranking the engine. Possibilities:
- Faulty Ignition Switch
- Faulty Neutral Safety Switch
- Loose/Corroded Wiring Harness Connection or Damaged Harness Wire
- Faulty Starter Solenoid
To test the starter and bypass the ignition switch, the Neutral Safety Switch, and the rest of the wiring harness, a remote starter switch can be connected at the solenoid or at the 2-wire harness connector in the engine compartment.
Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing. Click a second time for maximum enlargement...
If you determine that the Neutral Safety switch needs adjustment, the procedure can be found in the attached 1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6e - Automatic Transmission, page 6E-4.
Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease can sometimes improve the electrical connection in older metal connectors...
Most rear circuits route through the engine compartment multi-connector (below the voltage regulator, near the firewall). The number of metal connector pins inside depend on the Corvair model year, ranging from 8-12 pins. This rear multi-connector is a common source of trouble, as it is subjected to age, vibration, heat, and moisture for many years. Even when the outer plastic shell halves appear to be tightly connected, the internal metal pins may not be providing good electrical connectivity, as they may be loose, dirty, corroded, or bent.
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-D ... ric+grease
Permatex 22058 Dielectric Tune-Up Grease, 3 oz. Tube
CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
viewtopic.php?f=225&t=12968
- Attachments
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- 1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6e - Automatic Transmission.pdf
- 1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 6e - Automatic Transmission
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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
Thanks, terribleted and bbodie, I will start looking at my wires and harness and try to find it, but like mentioned intermittent is a real bugger. Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful and informative replies.
Current owner
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
Related, I just replaced my ignition switch today on my '67 Monza and figured I'd share some pics which may help someone someday. I got this switch for $20: https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-P ... B000CQ1Y5M Easy swap, only issue was that the new switch has one extra terminal marked GRD (for Ground, I presume) which went unused. My old switch had GRD molded in the plastic but no terminal. I tested, there is no continuity between the metal housing and the ground terminal.
Too bad a new bezel costs more than the switch. https://www.ebay.com/itm/65-67-for-Chev ... 2697833125
Too bad a new bezel costs more than the switch. https://www.ebay.com/itm/65-67-for-Chev ... 2697833125
- terribleted
- Posts: 4584
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
so what fixed the intermittent start issue on the 61??
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
It has been a while. I thought I had fixed the problem when I pulled the harness plug apart in the engine compartment and found corrosion on the plugs. I cleaned and put some dielectric grease and plugged it back in and that seemed at the time to solve the problem. I say seemed, because suddenly it happened again, a couple of times.
Finally I think I figured it out and should be scolded for not checking this first. The person I bought the car from had installed a battery cable to the starter, at the battery end he used a battery connector that clamps the wire. Well the last time it wouldn't start I went back there and accidently bumped the wire and it almost fell out of the connector. I cleaned the connector, the battery cable end and installed it back in tightly and the car fired right up. I also think he undersized the wire, from looking at it I think he used 4 gauge.
Time for a new battery cable with an integrated battery connector on one end and a heavier gauge.
Finally I think I figured it out and should be scolded for not checking this first. The person I bought the car from had installed a battery cable to the starter, at the battery end he used a battery connector that clamps the wire. Well the last time it wouldn't start I went back there and accidently bumped the wire and it almost fell out of the connector. I cleaned the connector, the battery cable end and installed it back in tightly and the car fired right up. I also think he undersized the wire, from looking at it I think he used 4 gauge.
Time for a new battery cable with an integrated battery connector on one end and a heavier gauge.
Current owner
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
- terribleted
- Posts: 4584
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
4 Gauge is very large, factory was only 6 gauge.wbabst wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:25 pm It has been a while. I thought I had fixed the problem when I pulled the harness plug apart in the engine compartment and found corrosion on the plugs. I cleaned and put some dielectric grease and plugged it back in and that seemed at the time to solve the problem. I say seemed, because suddenly it happened again, a couple of times.
Finally I think I figured it out and should be scolded for not checking this first. The person I bought the car from had installed a battery cable to the starter, at the battery end he used a battery connector that clamps the wire. Well the last time it wouldn't start I went back there and accidently bumped the wire and it almost fell out of the connector. I cleaned the connector, the battery cable end and installed it back in tightly and the car fired right up. I also think he undersized the wire, from looking at it I think he used 4 gauge.
Time for a new battery cable with an integrated battery connector on one end and a heavier gauge.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
terribleted wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:39 pm4 Gauge is very large, factory was only 6 gauge.wbabst wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:25 pm It has been a while. I thought I had fixed the problem when I pulled the harness plug apart in the engine compartment and found corrosion on the plugs. I cleaned and put some dielectric grease and plugged it back in and that seemed at the time to solve the problem. I say seemed, because suddenly it happened again, a couple of times.
Finally I think I figured it out and should be scolded for not checking this first. The person I bought the car from had installed a battery cable to the starter, at the battery end he used a battery connector that clamps the wire. Well the last time it wouldn't start I went back there and accidently bumped the wire and it almost fell out of the connector. I cleaned the connector, the battery cable end and installed it back in tightly and the car fired right up. I also think he undersized the wire, from looking at it I think he used 4 gauge.
Time for a new battery cable with an integrated battery connector on one end and a heavier gauge.
Thanks, I will double check, but the cable seems pretty small to me. I am obviously not an electrician if I don't catch silly stuff like this right away. Although, just poor trouble shooting skill are probably more to blame.
Current owner
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
- terribleted
- Posts: 4584
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
4 is larger than 6 is larger than 8 etc. From the few photos I have seen it looks like your car could use a complete wiring harness. No plug at the ignition switch missing plugs and rewired elsewhere etc.wbabst wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:59 pmterribleted wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:39 pm4 Gauge is very large, factory was only 6 gauge.wbabst wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:25 pm It has been a while. I thought I had fixed the problem when I pulled the harness plug apart in the engine compartment and found corrosion on the plugs. I cleaned and put some dielectric grease and plugged it back in and that seemed at the time to solve the problem. I say seemed, because suddenly it happened again, a couple of times.
Finally I think I figured it out and should be scolded for not checking this first. The person I bought the car from had installed a battery cable to the starter, at the battery end he used a battery connector that clamps the wire. Well the last time it wouldn't start I went back there and accidently bumped the wire and it almost fell out of the connector. I cleaned the connector, the battery cable end and installed it back in tightly and the car fired right up. I also think he undersized the wire, from looking at it I think he used 4 gauge.
Time for a new battery cable with an integrated battery connector on one end and a heavier gauge.
Thanks, I will double check, but the cable seems pretty small to me. I am obviously not an electrician if I don't catch silly stuff like this right away. Although, just poor trouble shooting skill are probably more to blame.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
I think you have me confused with the guy that put pictures in from his 67. My cars harnesses are good condition and complete. Just as you would expect over the years a few issues might arise, generally where others have fooled around with it.terribleted wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:01 pm
4 is larger than 6 is larger than 8 etc. From the few photos I have seen it looks like your car could use a complete wiring harness. No plug at the ignition switch missing plugs and rewired elsewhere etc.
Current owner
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
61(x2) Monza Cpe
55 Pontiac Chieftain Wagon
61 Progress here
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chevrole ... 7898185672
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goose-N6 ... 8869056897
- terribleted
- Posts: 4584
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
Re: Starting/Ignition Switch Issues
Yup. Erco hopefully fixed his mess.wbabst wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:05 pmI think you have me confused with the guy that put pictures in from his 67. My cars harnesses are good condition and complete. Just as you would expect over the years a few issues might arise, generally where others have fooled around with it.terribleted wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:01 pm
4 is larger than 6 is larger than 8 etc. From the few photos I have seen it looks like your car could use a complete wiring harness. No plug at the ignition switch missing plugs and rewired elsewhere etc.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/
Located in Snellville, Georgia