Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Show of your ride, keep track of your project, watch as others progress on their projects
Post Reply
User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 9485
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by bbodie52 »

Beautiful work! :tu: :clap: :not worthy:

:idea: I would like to make a suggestion: Since you have opted from time to time to make changes and modifications to improve quality, workmanship, and driving reliability, I would suggest that you remove and set aside the 1960-1961 distributor and replace it with an appropriate 1962-1969 distributor. The reason? To get rid of the obsolete and difficult to find 1961 points, condenser, rotor, and distributor cap. Switching to the design that was introduced in 1962 will allow you to utilize the more-common 1962-1969 cap and rotor. It will also allow you to utilize the proven and very reliable Crane Cams/FAST XR700 optical trigger breakerless ignition system. (The early design 1961 distributor is not compatible with the breakerless upgrade systems).

Image
1961 Corvair Lakewood Engine Distributor.jpg
bbodie52 wrote:For those considering modern ignition system options for their Corvair...

The Pertronix Ignitor II has been known to have some sensor problems managing a slow idle, such as found with a Corvair running a Powerglide automatic transmission in DRIVE. I believe the problem appears when the idle drops too low for the Pertronix Ignitor II electronic module to manage the pulses properly. The ignition system may begin to skip every other pulse, causing an ignition system misfire. This may show up with the engine dying when you shift a properly idling engine from NEUTRAL to DRIVE. The load of the torque converter may slow the engine to the point that the Pertronix unit begins to malfunction. The problem is not present in the Pertronix Ignitor I, the Crane Cams XR700, or the Stinger electronic distributor marketed by Performance Corvairs (Seth Emerson).

It was the Ignitor I version that could be damaged by leaving the key in the ON position without the engine running. The Crane Cams XR700 displays none of these problems. Both Pertronix modules prefer a full 12 VDC power source — bypassing the factory integrated resistor wire.

The primary reason for the factory integrated ballast resistor / resistor wire that is present in early vintage ignition systems was to reduce the voltage powering the ignition coil, which also in-turn reduced burning and arcing of the ignition points that occurs each time the points open or close. This system increases the coil voltage to full battery voltage during initial engine starting (when the starter is cranking the engine) to temporarily boost the ignition coil spark plug voltage output to promote engine starting. Once the engine starts and the starter system disengages, the ignition coil voltage reverts to a source routed through a ballast resistor that reduces coil input voltage from a nominal 12 VDC to approximately 7 VDC. This produces a lower spark plug voltage that is deemed sufficient for normal engine operation. The reduced coil input voltage prolongs the life of the ignition points electrical contacts, and has a secondary benefit of causing the ignition coil to run at cooler operating temperatures.

Many high performance ignition coils were designed to function powered at full battery voltage (12 VDC) all the time, to permit full-time maximum spark plug voltage. Also, most aftermarket electronic breakerless ignition systems that eliminate the use of ignition points (Pertronix Ignitor I and Ignitor II, Stinger electronic distributor, etc.) require a full 12 VDC power source to power the electronic circuitry. However, the Crane Cams XR700 electronic module was designed to be powered through the vehicle manufacturer's ballast resistor / resistor wire (nominal 7 VDC). Connecting it to a full 12 VDC could cause it to overheat and possibly malfunction. The requirements of any newly installed aftermarket performance ignition coil or electronic breakerless ignition system must be considered when installing the new system. Installation instructions must be carefully reviewed to ensure proper installation.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=74
Image

Ted in Atlanta has a lot of professional Corvair experience. I remember his recommendation...
terribleted wrote:...I love my Crane ignitions. I have only ever seen one that had failed. Something I can not say about the Pertronix units where failure is somewhat common from what I have seen.

Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up. Full time restoration tech and mechanic. https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ge=OTTO-21
Image


Image
NOTE: THE CRANE CAMS SYSTEM IS NOW MARKETED AS A FAST XR700, DROPPING THE CRANE CAMS NAME

FAST 700-0226 XR-700 Points-to-Electronic Ignition Conversion Kit for Domestic 4, 6 and 8 Cylinder Engines and VW/Bosch 009 Distributors
:link: https://www.amazon.com/FAST-700-0226-El ... pons&psc=1

Image :link: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fst- ... gI0K_D_BwE
Image :link: https://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/244/700-0226/10002/-1

Image :link: https://www.fuelairspark.com/ignition-s ... ition.html


It is not a bad idea to relocate the coil mount position. The standard installation of the ignition coil was always mounting it directly on the right cylinder head. The cylinder head on an air cooled engine gets very hot, and a significant portion of that heat can be transferred via the coil mounting bracket to the coil body itself. I would recommend relocating any coil as shown in the pictures below.

Image

Image
If you decide to change to the later-design Corvair distributor, this chart will help yo to compare timing advance curves, so that a similar distributor timing curve can be selected for your engine. The Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania can probably help yo to find a good, serviceable distributor from their wide selection.

Image

Image
New (1962-69) and Old (1960-61) Corvair Distributors


You might contact the Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. They have a large inventory of used Corvair parts and may be able to help you. Recommend you give them a call to discuss your needs...

:link: http://www.corvairranch.com/
Image

1079 Bon-Ox Road, ​Gettysburg, ​PA. 17325 USA
​Phone: 717-624-2805

fax us by the same number... ask us to hook up the machine

Email: findit@theranch.today

Our hours are Monday thru Friday 9 to 5, Saturday 9 to 12 or contact us for an appointment.


Image
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

User avatar
terribleted
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by terribleted »

For best operation the electric fuel pump should be mounted as close to the tank as possible. These pumps are made to push not pull fuel. I mount them behind the metal bulkhead right behind the tank to the right of the tunnel.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

:ty: :ty: :ty: :ty: :ty:

Brad Bodie for all the explanation and upgrades! I will print it and read it, read it, and this sounds like a good upgrade for the engine! Let me see what i can do over here in the Netherlands, sometimes shipping is killing me, and I need to wait a bit before i'm or somebody is back in the USA to take it home in the suitcase. we have some Summit suppliers as well, never worked with them. Does Seth Emerson got a set up like this as well or is that high performance set up? (Didn't check his site yet, I have seen some distributors on the convention from him)

Also relocating the coil, i have seen several different places by club members last weekend. I can place it different, let me see what is a nice place, and still be functional!

About the fuel pump, I hope this will work, otherwise i need to relocate it, let me check first. if it is not working i can easily place it somewhere else.
Still thank you for your advice! Appreciate it a lot!

Both Thank you! :tu:

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 9485
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by bbodie52 »

You are doing such a great restoration, I wasn't sure how far you are willing to stray from the original. An upgraded 1962-1969 distributor with a breakerless ignition retains a more-original appearance, while the Seth Emerson Stinger distributor brings on a brand new unit with all of the modern technology. The Crane Cams or Pertronix Ignitor upgrade to a stock 1962-69 distributor provides about a 25 year leap in technology, while the Stinger distributor brings your ignition system forward about 50 years. I would suggest Seth Emerson's distributor offering as the best, and you could choose an optional distributor cap to retain the plug wires you already have, or you can switch to the more-modern technology with the H.E.I. cap design (and matching plug wires). With your Powerglide transmission, the only thing to avoid is the Pertronix Ignitor II, which seems to have problems with the slower idle common to the automatic transmission in DRIVE.

I discussed the Seth Emerson Stinger distributor more extensively in the following post...

ELECTRONIC DISTRIBUTOR UPGRADE/REPLACEMENT OPTIONS

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=15101
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 9485
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by bbodie52 »

terribleted wrote: » Tue May 21, 2019 2:01 pm

I have had best luck with the Crane (now FAST) units. Direct installation without changing wiring or coil and very reliable. The only issue is that some rebuilt point plates had a pivot that is too tall and will interfere with the ignition shutter. I have always been able to grind some off the pivot bolt to gain the clearance I need unless the distributor bushing is badly worn so that the shaft sits way too low.
Ted in Atlanta has a lot of professional Corvair experience. I remember his recommendation...
terribleted wrote:Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:44 pm

..I love my Crane ignitions. I have only ever seen one that had failed. Something I can not say about the Pertronix units where failure is somewhat common from what I have seen.

Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up. Full time restoration tech and mechanic. https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration

:link: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7864&p=52789&hilit ... ns.#p52789
In case you overlooked it, the above quote was included in the thread I referred you to.


If your existing Corvair distributor is in good condition, the Crane Cams (FAST) XR700 system is likely one of the easiest to install and very reliable. Just don't remove or bypass the Corvair ballast resistor circuit feeding the stock coil. The engineers who designed the XR700 electronic module assumed the presence of a factory ballast resistor that would reduce the voltage feeding the ignition coil to a nominal 7-8 VDC. The electronic module was designed for this power source, and will tend to overheat if you power it with full battery voltage, or even higher when you add the increased charging voltage from the generator or alternator.

If you want a higher spark voltage from an aftermarket performance coil (such as a Pertronix Flame-Thrower 40,000 Volt unit) Pertronix markets it in a 1.5 ohm or 3.0 ohm version. Their website recommends the 3.0 ohm version for a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine, because of the longer duty cycle between spark discharges with the six cylinder engine. On the 8 cylinder engine, they recommend the 1.5 ohm coil due to the shorter duty cycle with the additional cylinders. The Pertronix goal is to provide a full 12 VDC to the coil and to tap off of that voltage to also feed a Pertronix Ignitor electronic ignition. (the 3.0 ohm coil they recommend permits bypassing the ballast resistor wire). But with the Crane Cams/FAST module, you WANT the ballast resistor to be in the circuit to power the coil and XR700 module. In such a configuration, the 1.8 ohms Corvair ballast resistor wire coupled to the 1.5 ohm version of the Pertronix Flame-Thrower coil will still produce the recommend 3.0 ohm primary circuit (nominal 3.3 ohms total — 1.8 ohms plus 1.5 ohms coil) to optimize the coil for six cylinder engine use, but the source voltage at the coil positive terminal would be a reduced 7-8 VDC, which would be OK for the Crane Cams XR700 module to tap off of at the coil positive terminal. This configuration would also be OK for the stock Delco ignition coil, which prefers the lower continuous operational voltage to run cooler.

:sad5: :whoa: :dontknow: Confused? Just ask. When modifying the ignition system with some combination of aftermarket components, it is important to understand the operational needs of each stock and aftermarket component that is being combined together in your Corvair, to ensure overall trouble-free performance with your chosen combination of stock and after-market items.
[/quote]

Remember, the Pertronix Ignitor II is not recommended for use on the Corvair engine that is running through a Powerglide Automatic transmission. The load of the Powerglide torque converter with the transmission in DRIVE will usually slow the idle speed to the point where the Pertronix Ignitor II module will misread the magnetic ignition trigger pulses — skipping every other pulse. This will often cause the engine to stall at idle speeds with th transmission shifted to DRIVE or REVERSE, as the engine loaded by the torque converter will begin firing only half of the cylinders when the idle is too slow to be properly triggered by the Pertronix Ignitor II. The Crane Cams/FAST or Pertronix Ignitor I, or the new Stinger electronic distributor offered by Seth Emerson does not have this problem. Also, since the Stinger distributor does not have a pressure retard unit, it is not compatible with the turbocharged Corvair engine.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

User avatar
Iceland Spyder
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:58 am
Location: Iceland

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by Iceland Spyder »

Hi Ralf and Brad Bodie, would 1110271 work for him same idle advance but 24 at 3700 instead 20 at 3600. I have one that I can send to him from Iceland. Needs new bushing.?.
Attachments
myndir 855.JPG

joelsplace
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by joelsplace »

I think you have to modify the top shroud for Seth's to fit. Larger cap.
114 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

Thank you all for the information of the distrubitor :tu: .
Let me see what i can do / arrange overhere in Europe, there are some supliers overhere, and hopefully one of the clubmembers got a 62 or later distrubitor.

if i dont get it overhere i will put it on my parts list, but it will take a while before i do a next order unfortunately.

And yes Joelspace, there is not a lot of room in a wagon with the engine and cover.

:ty:

User avatar
Iceland Spyder
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:58 am
Location: Iceland

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by Iceland Spyder »

Hi Ralf send me your address in private message and I will send you the distributor. I don't need it. IT is free. B.R.G.

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

Iceland Spyder wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Hi Ralf send me your address in private message and I will send you the distributor. I don't need it. IT is free. B.R.G.
AWESOME :woo: you got a private message!
Thank you so much for the help!

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

Little progress again

More fuel lines are in place, The last difficult one, the last one needs to be under the Lakewood, from the tank to this wierd bend line, but that will be next time.

Image

Finished the anti noise material on the boot lid. To do list getting smaller and smaller, soon we need to make another "new" to do list, stil there is a lot to do left.

Image

:ty:

User avatar
Iceland Spyder
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:58 am
Location: Iceland

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by Iceland Spyder »

Hi Ralf awesome work you are doing. I will post your distributor tomorrow and keep up the fantastic work.

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

Iceland Spyder wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:07 pm
Hi Ralf awesome work you are doing. I will post your distributor to morrow and keep up the fantastic work.
SOW AWESOME! :tu: thank you and i keep an eye on my mailbox!

User avatar
bbodie52
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 9485
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lake Chatuge Hayesville, NC
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by bbodie52 »

I decided to look back through all 25 pages of your posts, just to refresh my memory of your extensive and detailed project. :woo: :not worthy: :clap:

Interestingly, it appears that your 1961 Lakewood is fitted with cylinder heads from a 1962-1963 102 hp engine, instead of the usual 80 hp or 98 hp heads listed for the 1961 engine. I believe that the 1961 98 hp and the 1962-1963 102 hp heads were basically identical, and shared the same increased 9.0:1 compression ratio. The camshaft appears to be the difference between the 1961 98 hp rating (camshaft GM P/N: 3839889) and the 1962-1963 102 hp rating (camshaft GM 3872304). According to the 1961 and 1962 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs, the difference seems to be a change in the exhaust timing.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ow_page=27


Image
Lakewood Cylinder Head ID.jpg
Attachments
CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers.PDF
CORSA Corvair Technical Guide 1+2 - Corvair Code Numbers
(1.25 MiB) Downloaded 12 times
1961-Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf
1961 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs
(4.66 MiB) Downloaded 12 times
1962 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf
1962 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs
(3.07 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

bbodie52 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:37 am
I decided to look back through all 25 pages of your posts, just to refresh my memory of your extensive and detailed project. :woo: :not worthy: :clap:

Interestingly, it appears that your 1961 Lakewood is fitted with cylinder heads from a 1962-1963 102 hp engine, instead of the usual 80 hp or 98 hp heads listed for the 1961 engine. I believe that the 1961 98 hp and the 1962-1963 102 hp heads were basically identical, and shared the same increased 9.0:1 compression ratio. The camshaft appears to be the difference between the 1961 98 hp rating (camshaft GM P/N: 3839889) and the 1962-1963 102 hp rating (camshaft GM 3872304). According to the 1961 and 1962 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs, the difference seems to be a change in the exhaust timing.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... ow_page=27


Image
Lakewood Cylinder Head ID.jpg
Totaly true BBodie, you are correct about the head year, hp, numbers. little different instead of stock, but they run good, i had enough power before the restoration (and we have a flat country aswell hahahaha)

I will use the specs / fine tuning of the 102hp 62-63 engine :tu:

Soon i got the other distrubitor, and switch that with the 61 :tu:

User avatar
TikiRalf
Corvair of the Month
Corvair of the Month
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Valkenswaard - Netherlands - Europe
Contact:

Re: Corvair Lakewood 61 - NL

Post by TikiRalf »

Guess what i got in my mailbox last weekend! :tu: Thanks to Iceland Spyder a 1962-69 Distributor. :woo: Thank you!
Now its time to figure out which other parts i need to get this working in the Lakewood

Image

My mom and dad are back from a road-trip trough Canada and the USA, and they brought me some souvenirs back home :D (Y)
Better get those parts on the Lakewood! tomorrow its Lakewood time again at the Basement!

Image

Stay tuned (again hahaha)

Post Reply

Return to “Member's Rides, Projects, and Builds”