'64 has knock and smoking

[larry]

Turns out, it was the valve guide that shattered.
Other guides and seats in that head appear to be OK/good. Still need to measure wear on remainder of guides.

I need to minimize the investment in this car, not intended to be a daily-driver. Just a keepsake for my wife.

My concern is the shattered intake valve guide hole in the head. Not sure of what oversize new guide it may need. There was only a small section of the old guide remaining on the valve stem and it just falls thru the head.
Any "shade tree mechanic" methods for measuring the guide hole in the head?

[montermahan]

I wouldn't think it, but I have had damage on the opposite head from the side of the dropped seat ?? I

[terribleted]

Turns out, it was the valve guide that shattered.
Other guides and seats in that head appear to be OK/good. Still need to measure wear on remainder of guides.

I need to minimize the investment in this car, not intended to be a daily-driver. Just a keepsake for my wife.

My concern is the shattered intake valve guide hole in the head. Not sure of what oversize new guide it may need. There was only a small section of the old guide remaining on the valve steam and it just falls thru the head.
Any "shade tree mechanic" methods for measuring the guide hole in the head?

The head in your photo above need to be replaced. With the valve seat area damage and valve guide are damage and all the valve seat parts hammered into the combustion chambers replacement with a good head will be better and more cost effective. There are not really any "shade tree" fixes that will help you. The guide area that is failed and torn up can possibly be repaired as well. If the damage to the aluminum head is not to great installing an oversized guide may be possible. If this is not possible the head can likely be aluminum welded and machined to accept a new guide. The valve seat area has the same issues and then there is all the damage to the combustion chambers from hammered in valve seat shards. Finding a usable matching head can be a pretty good option. While not ideal such a head could be installed in place of the damaged one and the car operated with no further repair. Sometimes this work out great other times not so much. Be advised that a 64 head needs to be replaced with a 64 head, check the head numbers to make sure what you really have. Later heads will not mate up properly as they are not the same. Earlier heads will mount up ok but there are no 95 or 110 HP heads prior to 64 and therefore any earlier head would be a mismatch combustion chamber and compression wise. For best result and longevity the replacement head and its mate on the other side of the engine should be rebuilt and machining matched so both sides of the engine give the same performance and balance.

[martyscarr]

PM sent

[Gregory_Miller]

+1 to Ted's assessment. American flat 6 can provide heads that have deep seats, much less likely to drop a valve seat. Americanflat6.com
I trashed a great running 140 rebuild with the dreaded #5 intake drop, sucked some into #3 it was having so much fun trashing 5 and it wanted into the party too. :(

[larry]

After a few months I am back on the forum. Had some login issues...

Also, after a few months, The '64 heads are rebuilt. Lots of work on the cylinder that has the exploded valve guide. Cleaned out the guide pieces and added aluminum to the guide hole in the head. Heads look new again. (New guides all around and all valves measured good and ground to seats).

Now ready to reassemble... but one question - Thinking of replacing the rings but see no ware in the cylinders. Pushed one old ring into one cylinder and have a end-gap of 0.042" Seams large is that OK? cold?

Should I replace the rings or is this good?

Good to be back, thanks in advance,
Larry

[larry]

Got my ring gap question answer from shop manual. It is too big. Getting new rings.

I have second engin that is locked up. Will not turn with wrench. I’ve tried every thing I can think of to remove heads. (Though I might use some parts.) Praying / heating / WD40 insde & out. Even air pressure on all 3 cyclemders thru spark plug holes. Heads will NOT budge.

Any suggestions on removing heads?

‘60 engine - something odd about these heads?
The ‘64 heads came off easy. But it was running.

[larry]

Sorry. Locked up engine is ‘62 not 60.

[bbodie52]

» Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:44 am

I have second engine that is locked up. Will not turn with wrench. I’ve tried every thing I can think of to remove heads. (Though I might use some parts.) Praying / heating / WD40 inside & out. Even air pressure on all 3 cylinders thru spark plug holes. Heads will NOT budge.

With all six upper nuts removed, and all six rocker arm studs removed, and all of the sheet metal around the head removed, what is there to hold it in place? If the cylinder barrel was glued to the head, wouldn't the bottom end of the cylinder barrels just pull out from the engine cases? Are you certain you didn't miss something? I've had problems with the soft, rusty upper row of nuts rounding off and having to be chiseled or cut out, but never a problem with the bottom row. If an overlooked piece of sheet metal shroud was still bolted to the head, then... have all of the push rod tubes been removed?

attachment=0]Corvair 140 HP Cylinder Heads (5).JPG[/attachment]

[larry]

Thanks for your reply. Went thru your list.
Yep, all 6 top, all rockers and underneath nuts.
All 6 push rods tubes are out. All sheet metal off, even one “clipped” to bottom of cylinders. All on both heads.

One cylinder on one side appears to be moving slightly away from block. But only one which makes me concerned others are binding.

I don’t know much history. Except in car sat in mud for years, with engine in place. Engine was closed, plugs & carbs in place (when I got it). Only exhaust was open. Lots of rat nests under top sheet metal and around cylinders.

Will not turn with wrench. I suspect it was severely overheated. May not be any interesting ernal parts worth salvaging but thought I’d try.

With rockers all off all valves are closed (good valve springs). Some air leaks around pistons (i think) when I air posited 3 cylinders at one time. Thought that would for sure push heads off.

Thx
Larry

[bbodie52]

Did you ever take the top cover and fan off and look inside the cases at the crankshaft and connecting rods?

[larry]

Hmm, I thought about that but never did.
I’ll do that next week.

[larry]

Been a while but now back running.
Heads reworked & new rings.
Engine back in the car and drivable. No smoke!!

One new issue - can’t stop exhaust leak on one side. That head had the exhaust tubes come out With new “donut” gaskets that one side is not closing up good.

Is there packing in head around those tubes?
Or is it just an interference fit?
Shop manual doesn’t address this. Or I can’t find it.

Suggestions welcomed.
Larry

[joelsplace]

It is just a press fit.

[larry]

Hum, does it take a lot of force?
Heads is on engine and in car.
Do I need a press? (Which would require removing head. )

In a video he froze the tubes then with wood block and hammer dive them in. I have tried wood block and hammer while still on car. May haves helped a little.

Haven’t tried freezing yet!!

[terribleted]

I have changed exhaust tubes on the car. You must be aware that the heads studs may interfere with removal and reinstallation. I have had to remove a head stud before in order to get a tube out and back in.