Brakes

[Clayjones07]

On my 1966 monza 140 my rear brakes get red hot when i drive it anywhere even just around the block. I have replaced everything brake related (new master cylinder, brake lines, hoses, shoes, springs, wheel cylinders, e-brake line, e-brake spring in my 1966 monza 140 and every time I drive it even just around the block my rear brake drum gets red hot I've tried adjusting it manually and I'm thinking a part is bad and the brakes still get hot please help

[Swngaxl]

Is it one side heating up or both? How confident are you of the set of the drums? it almost sounds like the hand brake is not releasing, does the car seem low on power, like it's pulling a heavy load?

Did you by any chance look inside the new wheel cylinders? I am having a similar issue with my '64, but only on one side. On my car, I'm pretty sure it's the wheel cylinder. i rebuilt them myself, each one had a small rust spot on the bottom surface. I honed them best I could, but that one is still binding up and not letting the pistons move as well as they should.

Is the braking even or does it pull to one side, one wheel lock up under hard braking, etc?

Equally important, are you hearing any bad noises? A grinding sound could mean a wheel bearing about to go. I had this happen once, it was not good. I was in a subdivision at the time, and wasn't going very fast. When the bearing failed, it welded itself and the wheel locked up.

[terribleted]

Are the shoes installed correctly. Primary (shorter) shoe toward the front in all cases? E-brake may be too tight. Was the e-brake adjusted after installing the new brakes. Part of the procedure is to loose the cable adjustment all the way before installing new shoes on the rear (if the e-brake was adjusted with partly worn shoes it will be too tight with new ones installed) and then re-adjusting the cable after the install so the handle pulls about 7 clicks.

[Clayjones07]

Today we manually adjusted the rear brakes to what felt about right and adjusted the e-brake, we will have to feel it tomorrow when we drive and it is both rear brakes getting hot and honestly I'm not sure if it feels like I'm pulling a heavy load this is the only corvair I've driven so I don't have anything to compare it to

[zerobelow]

Quick first check to see if anything major is wrong: if you jack up the rear end, and put it in neutral, parking brake off, can you spin the wheels by hand?

(Be sure to do this on a level surface, chock the front wheels, etc.

[Clayjones07]

Yes I can spin the rear wheels, so I guess that rules out anything major

[UNSAFE]

Drive the car until the drums get hot and then jack it up and see if you can turn the rear wheels by hand .

Could be the rod that attaches the brake pedal to the master cylinder is not adjusted to the right length and it is causing residual pressure in the lines.

[myred63]

Hi all,
I am having a similar problem. Drive around the block and the rear drums are hot. Can not rotate by hand very well. I have replaced all 4 wheel cylinders but nothing else needed replacing. Look at this picture. How can I adjust the shoes manually if the top of the shoes are not bottomed out on the center pin? Should the shoes be bottomed out on the center pin like the front? I can not push the shoes in so they touch the center pin. Should I be able to push them together by hand? This would mean pushing the fluid back to the master cylinder.
Thanks, Jon

[GriffinGuru]

Myred63, that is a little odd indeed. On looking at your picture I can see the spring on the left looks to be stretching, so the springs should be applying tension properly, and they look new anyway. I would check that the "spacer rod" below the wheel cyl (I'm not sure of the proper name) spanning between the two shoes is in the correct notches and/or orientation (front/back).

If it is in the correct notches and spring side in the correct direction, then the next suspect would be the e-brake or cable could be stuck, as the e-brake also pries on that spacer bar. A stuck e-brake will hold the shoes away from the top just as you are seeing.

[funvairs]

myred63, the brake shoes should seat on the anchor pin. You replaced the wheel cylinders, so that should not be your problem. Open up the bleeder screw a couple of turns. If the shoes do not retract all the way, replace the brake hoses, all of them. If the shoes do retract, close the bleeder screw and disconnect the e-brake cable from the shoe. If the brake shoes do not retract this time, the problem is the brake cable or its adjustment

[myred63]

Hi, Good suggestions. I did bleed out some fluid and they retracted last time I had the wheels off. I think I am leaning towards the e-brake. I am going to back it all the way off and see if I can get everything sitting correctly. Springs are not new just looking nice. They may be original springs. This car has had a good life. It has been in the family since 1976 and garaged for the last 35 years just driven once a month. Tonight I'll back off the e-brake and let you all know.
Thanks, Jon

[funvairs]

myred63. Sorry, I should have proof read what I wrote. If the shoes retract when you open the bleeder, you probably have bad hoses. If the shoes do not retract when you open the bleeder, look at the e-brake cable.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

[64powerglide]

Check the e-brake strut lever, it goes between both shoes & it will go in 2 ways but one way is wrong. I found that out when I did mine, I had the lever in which a bit hard to get in then & I had the gap at the top pin. That's when I found out I had the lever in backwards. What can I say, i'm 72 plus.

[myred63]

Hi, I dismantled one rear brake assembly. Just took all the springs off and made sure I have it installed correctly. Especially the e-brake arm in the middle. Looked at the manual for the picture and it fits just right. Adjuster at the bottom is all the way in to start. Now, to get the shoes to sit against the center pin, I did bleed from the nipple and they sat in just fine. Now when I turn the drum it is free as a bird. I will do the same thing on the other side tomorrow. I did not adjust the e-brake, mainly because I can't see how to do it and I don't think it is holding the shoes apart. Now Chris Brown stated that since I cannot push the shoes in without opening the bleeder valve, it is the hoses. That could be. I may replace all 4 just to be safe.

This is how it all started:
The car has been driving fine for a few hundred miles since I replaced the wheel brake cylinders, all 4. Then when driving in a parking lot, backing up and such, the brake pedal went all the way to the top with no play. After that, I could feel the drag of the break shoes on the way home, then smell of hot breaks. Drums we very hot to the touch. something was wrong. Hence my first post.

[66vairguy]

O.K. --- You said the pedal was at the top with NO play. There should ALWAYS be about a 1/4" of play at the pedal before brake MC is engaged. If not, then as others said the MC piston won't come back far enough to let the fluid return when the shoes move back to their resting position.

Did the pedal go "to the top" after backing up? If so that sounds like a malfunctioning self adjuster system.

BTW - Do you have a single MC (Master Cylinder) or a dual MC?

Old hoses are certainly known to block fluid return. If you had to replace the wheel cylinders then new hoses should have been installed, unless the hoses were less than ten years old. They are a perishable item.

Bottom line - you have a number of things to look at.

[myred63]

Hi 66vairguy,
I have the original single master cylinder. I Think that the pedal when up to the top after backing up. And it sounds like a self adjuster. I have all wheels off and will retract the self adjuster all the way in, bleed off some fluid so the rear shoes sit against the pin, adjust the self adjuster so they almost hit the drum and THEN, step on the brake pedal. If they do not retract as expected, new hoses all the way around. I should probably change out the hoses, they are more then 30 years old. And as you said, I did change out all 4 wheel cylinders. They had some rust in them and I didn't want to try to clean and hone them.
Thanks for the help. Ordering hoses today.
Jon