Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

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ranger372
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:05 pm

Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by ranger372 »

Hello All, Been a member for several years, but rarely post. I need input, suggestions and advice please.
I've got 2 Corvairs, first is a '63 Monza vert, looks and runs great. 2nd is '65 Corsa Turbo vert.....This car, I purchased last Fall as a project. Since that time I have rebuilt the engine, I also had the Turbo and 45DOC professionally rebuilt by well known Corvair experts. The Engine power pack is now complete. OK, now the Body. I've stripped and applied POR15 to the interior floors, Floors were solid with only a few pin holes, replacing the floors was not necessary. I've also completed the following:
Replaced Brakes
Wheel Cyl's
Brake line hoses
Fuel Tank
Sending unit
Fuel Line (tank to rear)
Return Fuel Line
Rebuilt Shifter Shaft and Tube
Replaced Clutch Cable
Replaced Clutch Pulley
Removed factory Undercoating at the wheel wells, NO rust was found
Condition of the body -This was a Calif. car. The only rust I've found is a quarter size at each lower door jamb adjacent to the rocker panel (typical for a Vert). I am told, this is minor and can be cut out, interior treated and re-welded, no structural compromise. There is NO rust at the windshield or any where on the car that I can see. Body Work, is a skill I do not have. there are 3 layers of paint (top layer is very thick). numerous dings and dangs, and one rear quarter looks as if someone backed over a large rock. Convertible Top is non existent- frame is there but would need to be disassembled, cleaned and painted. Trunk floor is solid. Car needs a complete interior. Steering box needs a rebuild. Telescoping steering column needs a rebuild. Front suspension should be rebuilt. Oh yes almost forgot, PAINT
OK, here is my quandary.......Do I pay someone to basically rebuild the entire body?....... Do I take my finished power train, Corsa dash and other Corsa specific items and install into a already finished Monza (making a Corsa Clone).......I am pushing 70, not wealthy, and not ready to learn new skills that would meet my satisfaction. If there is anyone out there willing to take on such a project at a reasonable/fair price...let me know.
Sorry for the long read and thanks for the read.
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azdave
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by azdave »

Some people will cry if you use parts from a mechanically solid 65 Corsa 180 vert to make a Monza look like a Corsa. I don't really care since it is your car and your money but I myself would recommend to continue investing in the Corsa 180 since that is more rare and you obviously have a solid chassis and mechanicals. Neither path you take will be cheap and you may have to compromise on the interior or the paint job to get it done so you can enjoy it in the near future. Fixing up old cars on a budget is not easy when it comes to all the cosmetics.
Dave W. from Gilbert, AZ

66 Corsa 140/4 Yenko Stinger Tribute
66 Corsa 140 Coupe w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5
64 Greenbrier 110/PG, Standard 6-Door
plrgpr
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by plrgpr »

Yep, what azdave said👍 Sounds if you have some pretty good bones to work with!
Gary Roberson
66 Vert 140 4-sp Corsa “clone”
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bbodie52
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by bbodie52 »

To help you decide, here are some production statistics to show you just how rare 1965 and 1966 Corsa convertibles are! If you carry the turbo option forward with an estimated 3.06% of the 1965 Corsas having been ordered with the turbocharged engine option, only about 256 1965 Corsa convertibles were produced with the turbocharged engine option! It is estimated that only about 59 1966 Corsa convertibles were built with the turbocharged engine! Late model (1965 and later) convertibles are becoming even more-rare, because the sheet metal used in 1965 and later Corvairs was somwewhat thinner than the gauge used in 1964 and earlier cars. Convertibles had to be reinforced in the body area around the door frame, since they lacked a roof to strengthen the unibody Corvair chassis. You indicated that your Corsa convertible is a relatively rust-free California car. You might imagine that clean, solid, rust-free 1965 turbocharged Corsa convertibles that still survive in 2019 are among the rarest of the rare. If at all possible I would suggest you try to keep your rare turbocharged Corsa convertible intact. It would be well-worth protecting that model. It's value would be much higher than a Corsa clone.

Image

RPO: L87 — 180 HP Turbocharged Engine (Corsas only) 1965: 7206 (3.06%) 1966: 1951 (1.88%)

Source: 1965, 1966, & 1967 U.S. RPO Statistics :link: http://www.corvairkid.com/65-67rpostat.htm

Here is how to decode the VIN tag in the engine compartment...

Image

This body tag is probably much like yours. It shows a 1965 Chevrolet Corsa Convertible (65-10767) with a Sierra Tan paint and a Tan convertible top, a Saddle interior, with an ACC line that includes 4O, the RPO L87 Turbo engine!
Image
4 = Fourth Group
P = RPO Z01 convenience group ( 2 sp wipers, washers, day/night inside mirror).
O = RPO L87 Turbo engine
U = Spare tire lock
F = Outside Remote Drivers Mirror/ with CC group
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
66vairguy
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by 66vairguy »

I agree with azdave. Sometime a project just becomes too big for one's resources. That said an assembled 65 Corsa Turbo convertible will bring more money if you sell it as is versus attempting to move the parts to a Monza. I've seen a few incomplete projects that folks decided they could not finish and the price of an incomplete project is usually considerable lower than a rough complete, and correct, car.

I have no issue with a Corsa clone, but understand it will always be less desirable than a correct Corsa.
martyscarr
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by martyscarr »

It would help if we knew your location
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bbodie52
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by bbodie52 »

brain·storm
/ˈbrānˌstôrm/

verb
gerund or present participle: brainstorming
  • produce an idea or way of solving a problem by holding a spontaneous group discussion.
    "a brainstorming session"
Brainstorming
Image
Brainstorming is a group creativity technique by which efforts are made to find a conclusion for a specific problem
by gathering a list of ideas spontaneously contributed by its members.
bbodie52 wrote:...only about 256 1965 Corsa convertibles were produced with the turbocharged engine option!
:tu: :think: :helpsos: Perhaps if you are near an active CORSA club chapter some club members might be convinced that your very rare, unique 1965 Corsa convertible could be a worthwhile effort worthy of a club project assist. Volunteers from that club, if they exist and would be willing, may lend a hand periodically to help you to take on significant sub-projects like a convertible top frame and structure restoration. Fund raising efforts to support an interior restoration utilizing the excellent resources available through Clark's Corvair Parts may help such a CORSA club to accomplish much more than you could be expected to do alone. The whole project could be photographed and documented here on the Corvair Forum. If you were to join such a club, a few open discussions could help to determine if there might be sufficient interest and enthusiasm in the group to make such an effort possible.
:dontknow:


Image :link: https://www.corvair.org/index.php?optio ... crmSID=3_u

The link below will provide you with a list of useful websites that are Corvair-related. Some of the links will lead you to an extensive technical library that will allow you to download shop manuals and other technical references in Adobe Reader format at no cost. There is also a link that will help you to locate nearby CORSA (Corvair Society of America) club chapters. While the Corvair Forum can be very helpful as you work on your Corvair, having local friends and contacts in your region who are knowledgeable about the Corvair can also be very helpful. These family-friendly CORSA club chapters often offer picnics, group scenic drives, technical training and assistance, car shows, and competition events that can greatly enhance your enjoyment of Corvair ownership. You will also find a list of essential Corvair parts suppliers. Knowing where you live might suggest some possibilities or problem solutions.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: http://www.corvairforum.com/forum/viewt ... 225&t=6007

To help supplement the material in the 1965 Corvair Chassis Shop Manual, I have attached some material that may be helpful with some of the areas you mentioned...

:chevy:
Attachments
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - FOLDING TOP - Part 1 of 2.pdf
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - FOLDING TOP - Part 1 of 2
(6.32 MiB) Downloaded 38 times
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - FOLDING TOP - Part 2 of 2.pdf
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - FOLDING TOP - Part 2 of 2
(6.57 MiB) Downloaded 42 times
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - ELECTRIC FOLDING TOP - CORVAIR.pdf
1966 Fisher Body Service Manual - ELECTRIC FOLDING TOP - CORVAIR
(722.15 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - TELESCOPING STEERING COLUMN.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - TELESCOPING STEERING COLUMN
(758.07 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - FRONT SUSPENSION.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - FRONT SUSPENSION
(1.76 MiB) Downloaded 35 times
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - REAR SUSPENSION.pdf
1965 Corvair Assembly Manual - REAR SUSPENSION
(4.32 MiB) Downloaded 35 times
1965 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs.pdf
1965 Chevrolet Corvair GM Heritage Center Specs
(2.01 MiB) Downloaded 37 times
Corvair Alignment (1).pdf
Corvair Alignment (1)
(110.01 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
Corvair Alignment. (2).pdf
Corvair Alignment (2)
(163.28 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
Rebuilding a Corvair Steering Box.pdf
Rebuilding a Corvair Steering Box
(570.04 KiB) Downloaded 46 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
ranger372
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by ranger372 »

I am located in northern Arkansas and a member of the Arkansas Corvair Club out of Little Rock. Unfortunately a 3 hour drive between Little Rock and home. Don't know if I'm all that concerned about sell value of the Corsa. Selling is not my goal, having fun is. I am leaning towards creating a Corsa clone. Refurbishing or a full Restoration of the Corsa is just cost prohibitive in my case. Front Suspension rebuilding, Telescoping Steering rebuilding, Steering gear box rebuild.....Mechanical fixes/repairs are items I can do......It's the body work, paint, and convertible top, all are very expensive.
Please, I am open to suggestions, I will not make my final decision till Fall.
joelsplace
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by joelsplace »

Please sell the Corsa to someone that would appreciate a rare car, sell the Monza and buy a Corsa or Corsa clone that is already finished. Way cheaper than building one yourself as you have already discovered.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
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bbodie52
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by bbodie52 »

:goodpost:

:idea: You are right, in that your location is too remote from any well-established CORSA club that might be able to assist you. It may be that your budget and age may point to the fact that the Corvairs in your possession are just not appropriate for you to allow them to meet your desires or needs. The time period between now and the Fall season may allow you to aggressively search for the right street-ready example that will reward you with the car that would really fulfill your desires. The cars you currently own may just be valuable enough in their current state to attract a buyer who would value your turbo Corsa convertible as a basis for a collector restoration project car, and that sale may bring enough money for you to buy a Monza coupe or sedan that is ready to hit the street for your driving enjoyment. Buying a non-turbo example with a 110 hp or 140 hp engine will also provide you with a "daily driver' car that will get better mileage on Regular or Mid-grade fuel than you would ever get with a turbocharged engine that gets relatively poor mileage on expensive Premium fuel.

If you decide to try to list your Corsa turbo as is as a good restoration project for someone, be sure to emphasize all of its positive attributes. Your reasons for looking for something else as a "driver's Corvair" (your age, time, limited restoration budget and body refinishing skills) would help to reassure potential buyers as to your valid reasons for wanting to sell. Couple that with many detailed photographs, including a close-up of the VIN and Body Tags that emphasize the car's exclusive unique historical value, and perhaps the right buyer will take this Corsa on to finish the job and will protect this exclusive turbo convertible for someone who truly sees the value of this car as a worthwhile restoration project. You may just get enough money for it to make buying a different, street-ready car a real possibility.

You might consider contacting JT Vairs. They are located just a few hundred miles north of you. If you check out their website you will find that they are a unique Corvair organization that may just be very interested in your rare 1965 Turbo Corsa convertible. I would suggest exploring their website and calling them to describe your situation and your unique turbo Corvair. They may have some ideas that might suit your needs, and they may even be interested in acquiring your Corsa convertible. :dontknow:

:link: http://www.jtvairs.com/home.html
Our Mission

Promote interest and appreciation for Corvairs. Many collectors today can't afford the muscle cars (the gas or the purchase!) or vintage cars where parts are unattainable. Corvairs are still plentiful, parts are reasonable and most any back yard mechanic can learn enough to keep them running. Most of all, these great looking cars with classic lines are a blast to drive. Aluminum, flat 6 rear mounted engines are hard to beat in autocross situations, even unmodified. We are not a business. We find cars, put buyers and sellers together and sometimes, we part with a car in our collection. Send us your wish list, we'll see what we can find, but we don't restore cars for hire, we can direct you to those who do. However, we do provide assistance, resources and will help you get your car back on the road. The page "Corvairs we have known" showcases many of the cars we have helped back onto the road and into the hearts of new and old Corvair enthusiasts.
If you wish to contact us:

JTVairs
Paris Springs Jct, Missouri
Call: John: 319-850-6699 or Teresa: 515-520-7209
E mail: tkmiller714@yahoo.com or ssvairnut@yahoo.com

Image

4 h 4 min (232.9 mi) via US-65 S

I have listed a lot of Internet marketing websites below that should give you a large number of Corvairs to look at, and those same sites may help you to successfully market your Corsa. Ultimately an effective "trade" may better-satisfy you with the outcome and may end up protecting your unique Corsa convertible as well.
eBay is one possibility. There are several specialized used car dealers who focus on finding and selling classic cars. Many are in very good condition. You pay a little more for this "finder's fee", but many of these dealers focus on classic car enthusiasts and the dealers value their reputations. In fact, my current 1966 Corsa convertible was initially spotted on eBay, and I bought it from a Florida classic car dealer in Lakeland, Florida. I took a Greyhound bus from Atlanta, closed the deal in Florida, and drove the car home (571 miles) without any problem in 2012. As with all classic Corvairs, the buyer must be cautious. Sometimes CORSA club members or Corvair Forum members will assist potential buyers by acting as a "third party" to examine local Corvairs that were initially located on eBay. Several Corvair buyers in England and Italy bought their Corvairs in this way with the assistance of Corvair enthusiasts in the USA who helped them (since there was no practical way for the prospective buyer to personally examine the Corvairs before closing the deal and shipping the cars to Europe).

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CORVAIRS FOR SALE
:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.c ... =buyorsell

Image
Just Listed!
:link: https://www.corvair.org/go-shopping

Image
Chevrolet Corvair for Sale
:link: http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/car ... et/corvair

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Classifieds for Classic Chevrolet Corvair
:link: http://classiccars.com/listings/find/al ... et/corvair

Image
:link: http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/che ... rvair.html

Image
Corvairs for Sale
:link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Corvairs ... 7975069947

Even a :google: :search: for "Corvairs for Sale" will produce many leads.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by 66vairguy »

joelsplace wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:23 am Please sell the Corsa to someone that would appreciate a rare car, sell the Monza and buy a Corsa or Corsa clone that is already finished. Way cheaper than building one yourself as you have already discovered.
I'll second what Joel says. I know from experience that it is usually less expensive to buy a car that is fixed up vs. fixing one up. Knowing ones limits is a good start. In your case finding a good solid bodied car that needs some minor mechanical work would be a good fit.

In the last month I helped two folks who bought fairly nice Corvairs that "would not run". They paid well below the average value for Corvairs that were nice, but the owners could not get to run. In one case someone incorrectly installed an electronic ignition, on the other the carburetors were bad. For very little money both cars now run great.
ranger372
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by ranger372 »

OK guys, I've made my decision. I do believe this will please the group........My Corsa will be going into the shop in November. The shop will be Stripping paint, Performing all necessary body work, Painting, Replacing steering linkage. The good news the '65 Corsa Turbo Convertible will be saved and will see many more years on the road.
steve57
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by steve57 »

I’ve been following along and try not to give opinions on what someone does with their Corvair. I do think this is a good decision though. Good luck and I hope you found a good shop to perform the work.
Steve
Bakersfield,CA
1969 monza coupe
110, 4speed
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bbodie52
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by bbodie52 »

I still think a conversation with JT Vairs might provide some valuable ideas and insight that you won't necessarily come to alone. If you browse their website you will see that they have restored dozens of Corvairs — not for hire but out of concern and enjoyment in preserving Corvairs for their own enjoyment. Having done so gives them a great deal of valuable experience and knowledge about costs and the work needed to get to a desired result. In your own effort you happened to come across a unique turbo Corsa that is well-worth preserving, but may also be at the outer limits of your budget and abilities.

Perhaps you would benefit by having a discussion with JT Vairs about your current situation, and your desired outcome on a personal level. Their experience may offer some ideas that have not been voiced on this forum, and that you had not thought of. My impression of their motivation as indicated on their website is not only to preserve Corvairs for their own enjoyment, but to assist other Corvair owners into achieving a happy outcome while avoiding the pitfalls that they are aware of that can occur with any owner. A Corvair can be a time consuming money pit that sometimes leads to a project trap that halts progress and leaves the car sitting for years in an unfinished state that is frustrating and something of a trap for the owner.

Your plan may very well be a workable one. Having a discussion with JT Vairs may also tap into a knowledge resource that will help guide you to a satisfying outcome. So far you have a plan that is not locked into place by financial commitment. If you have not yet looked at the JT Vairs website, I would suggest you browse through it for ideas, and perhaps contact them for a discussion that may very well prove to be useful to you.


Image :link: http://www.jtvairs.com/
Keep 'Em On The Road!
JTVairs wrote:...We are not a business. We find cars, put buyers and sellers together and sometimes, we part with a car in our collection. Send us your wish list, we'll see what we can find, but we don't restore cars for hire, we can direct you to those who do.

However, we do provide assistance, resources and will help you get your car back on the road...
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible
ranger372
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by ranger372 »

This was my Posting Thread of almost a year ago. A lot has transpired since my original posting in July of 2019.
First off, I listened to ALL of the advise/suggestions by the good people of Corvair Forum. It was/is still my decision to rebuild the '65 Corsa Conv't. It has come along quite nicely. Car is being reassembled after Body Work and Paint being completed. Upholstery is complete and stored until I am ready.

I've installed the Turbo Charged Engine, But not started yet. Wheels & Tires are on order, I have just about everything to complete except Convertible Top, Carpet and alignment.

I did in fact stop and speak with the folks at JTVairs in late August. Their Input was also considered.

As my assembly continues, I am asking questions in the 'Ask Your Mechanical Questions' section.

Thank You All, :ty:
Steve D.
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doug6423
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Re: Corsa original or Corsa Clone ?

Post by doug6423 »

Nice looking!


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