Well she died today

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morevair
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Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:06 am

All,
my love just died today...
1966 corsa 4 speed
I replaced the engine harness and everything was good (even took her out for a nice spin with a big smile on my face ) all was good... then I wanted to take out for a night ride... started the engine (worked perfectly). then I turned on the head lights... and POOF... the engine died, and I have no power to anything... It's like the battery was removed... With a meter I checked, I have power to the rear harness, and power to the harness under the dash to the main connector below the ash tray... Continuity on all fuses... but that's it... One person is telling me that I might have an open under the dash (I'm sure you know what that may involve, although I do have gauge issues that do need to be addressed )... another is saying it may be the fuse block (I'm hoping that's not the problem, because I've been looking and it seems like replacements fuse blocks are rarer than hens teeth) ... HELP... Any pointers to possible diagnostics will help...

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:09 am

I know she's 52 years old... but she a new born to me...

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bbodie52
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by bbodie52 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:28 am

morevair wrote:Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:06 am

my love just died today...
1966 corsa 4 speed
I replaced the engine harness and everything was good (even took her out for a nice spin with a big smile on my face ) all was good... then I wanted to take out for a night ride... started the engine (worked perfectly). then I turned on the head lights... and POOF... the engine died, and I have no power to anything... It's like the battery was removed... With a meter I checked, I have power to the rear harness, and power to the harness under the dash to the main connector below the ash tray... Continuity on all fuses... but that's it... One person is telling me that I might have an open under the dash (I'm sure you know what that may involve, although I do have gauge issues that do need to be addressed )... another is saying it may be the fuse block (I'm hoping that's not the problem, because I've been looking and it seems like replacements fuse blocks are rarer than hens teeth) ... HELP... Any pointers to possible diagnostics will help...
:imsorry: :guitar: :beamup: :sad:
:pray: Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing or "Pan & Scan"...
1965 Corvair Corsa Full Schematic (Rev. D).jpg
1965 Corvair Corsa Full Schematic
NOTE: I don't have a 1966 Corsa schematic. The wiring is basically the same as the 1965 Corsa, but the wiring color codes may be different.

:think: :fishing: More clues/symptoms may be needed...
:typing:
The main power feed to the car is a 10 gauge Red wire that travels from the JUNCTION near the battery positive terminal to both the alternator and the 12-pin multiconnector in the engine compartment. It continues on to the 12-pin multiconnector under the dashboard and then on to a wiring harness junction point behind the dashboard that distributes unfused power to the:
  • CIGARETTE LIGHTER (14 R)
  • FUSE BLOCK (12 R)
  • LIGHT SWITCH (14 R)
  • IGNITION SWITCH (12 R)
  • HORN RELAY (14 R) (Via the square multiconnector that passes from under the dashboard to the trunk).
There is no fuse or switch that would interrupt power to this distribution junction in the wiring harness behind the dashboard. Do you have power to any of the above? (Does the horn work? Does the cigarette lighter have power?) If these basic hard-wired items work, you have at least confirmed that power distribution reaches the main power distribution junction.

The 12 PPL wire from the ignition switch connects to the starter solenoid, to trigger the starter when you turn the key to START. Does this work?

The 12 BRN wire from the ignition switch feeds the fuse block turn signal flasher. With the key ON, do the turn signals work?

The 14 B/P wire from the ignition switch feeds a junction point that powers the instrument panel (TEMP/PRES & GEN/FAN warning lights, FUEL GAUGE, TACHOMETER). Do the warning lights come on? With the key ON, can you measure voltage at the ignition coil positive terminal?

If none of these items work, you might have a battery grounding problem. Try removing and cleaning the battery terminals and posts with a battery cleaning wire brush. I have had instances where a current surge cause arcing and a carbon formation between the battery cable connector and the battery posts. The terminals appeared to be tight and connected, but the electrical connection was dirty and had a high resistance that prevented the car electrical components from receiving the needed current. See if removing, cleaning and reconnecting the positive and negative battery terminals helps.

Image

Also, there should be TWO ground cables. The thick one should be bolted to the engine, and the thin one should be bolted to the car chassis frame.
Image

At this point, I need some feedback. What have you found so far??? :dontknow:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

skipvair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by skipvair » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:34 am

I used to have problems with the main connector back in the engine compartment doing the same thing


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morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:40 pm

Well, I used Brads advice... cleaned up all the grounds ( they did need it, plus I need to add some missing engine ground straps...)... but still nothing... no horn and no other non-fused item... I've pulled the dash (it needed it anyway) and will see if the daemons are in there...

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:43 pm

On the side... inside of my ash tray holder is a push switch... any idea what it's for ?

bobg1951chevy
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Location: Hendersonville, NC.

Re: Well she died today

Unread post by bobg1951chevy » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:16 pm

morevair wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:43 pm
On the side... inside of my ash tray holder is a push switch... any idea what it's for ?
Did a previous owner install a "kill switch" in the ashtray area ?
Bob G., Hendersonville, NC.

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. 6/2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. 5/2014.
1969 Corvair 500 Coupe # 2671. 7/2017.

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bbodie52
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by bbodie52 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:25 pm

Is there any voltage measured at the horn relay in the trunk, or at the cigarette lighter wire? If not, have you tried separating and inspecting, then re-seating the two halves of each multiconnector in the circuit path? The two plastic halves may look to be properly seated together, but there could be a burned/arcing/corroded metal connector inside that is preventing electrical continuity. There could also be a shorted or damaged wire in the harness. It may be physically hard to locate the fault, but as seen in the schematic the circuit is fairly simple. It will just take some time with a multimeter to trace and probe the circuit to find out how far the battery voltage is getting and where it stops. The car needs a good voltage source and a solid ground return to the battery (and a good battery). You need to discover where the malfunction is.

There is a split connection after the junction point at the battery location that branches to both the car harness connection that leads to the dashboard area, and to the alternator. Could there be a short in the alternator that is shorted to ground and preventing the voltage from reaching the interior harness? You could temporarily disconnect the alternator wire and unplug the voltage regulator to see if anything changes.

There is no way to guess what the hidden, non-standard switch at the ashtray does. If it is wired you will need to trace the wire and see where it goes and what it is connected to. :dontknow:

Left-click image to enlarge for better viewing...
1965 Primary DC Power Distribution.jpg
1965 Primary DC Power Distribution
1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness.jpg
1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness
1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness Multi-pin Connector.jpg
1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness Multi-pin Connector
1965-1969 Corvair Engine Compartment Wiring Harness Multi-pin Connector.jpg (33.79 KiB) Viewed 386 times
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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Allan Lacki
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by Allan Lacki » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:51 am

It could be something silly. You mentioned that you replaced the engine harness. I'd start with that. Make sure it's fully snapped into the main body harness. It may appear to be snapped-in, but make sure the two "fingers" on the snap connector have actually popped all the way through. Also, check the little round red junction block next to the battery. Make sure the leads are screwed-in tightly there.

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terribleted
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by terribleted » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:24 am

OK so let me get this right. You say you have 12V at the 10gauge red wire in the main body harness plug the is located under the dash and connects to the dash harness which include the fuse box, but you have not 12V at the fuse box itself. Check at the back of the ignition switch for 12V as there should be constant 12V on the 12gauge red wire feeding the switch. If you have no 12V at the fuse box or at the back of the ignition switch but do have it at the forward end of the main body harness then your issue is in the short section of wires immediately after the main body harness feeding the fuse box and dash. Most likely is corrosion or otherwise bad connection between the main body harness and the dash harness. These connectors are notorious for corroding and causing just this type of issue. Next bet would be wire came off the ignition switch followed by a broken wire between the ignition switch and the harness. If there is no 12V on the 10gauge red wire at the main body connector feeding the dash harness the most likely spot is corrosion or poor connection at the large plug from your new engine harness to the main body harness (red 10gauge wire), or bad connection at the positive wire connector located on the frame rail just forward of the battery (there should be a wire from the positive post of the battery that feeds the new harness...12gauge red in the diagram).
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:42 pm

Oh well, the next part of the Saga... My electrical Engineer club Member stopped by... we went through the entire harness... from beginning to end... What was really strange... there was 12.34V all the way... but get this... when a jumper was put on the front harness to test the 10GA red power wire to the ignition switch... 0V... no jumper back to 12V... We puzzled over that for a while ( taking looms apart, due to a lot of goofy stuff under the dash...) It looks like ANY load causes an open... the engine harness takes a load and the front receptacle reads 12V... so It looks like she's going on stands so I can inspect the main harness... never a dull moment... Not sure my beer belly will get under the beast...

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:47 pm

Oh, and there was a kill switch put in the ash tray light socket (wondered about the hole, it looked so factory) it could ground the tach Neg... stopping the coil... to say the least, I removed it...

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:09 pm

Plus while I looked underneath, the lower channel panel look pretty orange (only surface rust) so I'll clean that up... should I give it a Yenko blue stripe... LOL, the car is white exterior, black interior, plus, plus it looks like the rear control arm bushings are shot... but I've got access to rebuilt beaded, powder coated ones... my question is the bushings... the original rubber, or the press on nylon... I'm 64 ( so I don't need it to last another 52 years, just want to make assembly as less stressful as possible...

66vairguy
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by 66vairguy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:00 am

morevair wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:42 pm
Oh well, the next part of the Saga... My electrical Engineer club Member stopped by... we went through the entire harness... from beginning to end... What was really strange... there was 12.34V all the way... but get this... when a jumper was put on the front harness to test the 10GA red power wire to the ignition switch... 0V... no jumper back to 12V... We puzzled over that for a while ( taking looms apart, due to a lot of goofy stuff under the dash...) It looks like ANY load causes an open... the engine harness takes a load and the front receptacle reads 12V... so It looks like she's going on stands so I can inspect the main harness... never a dull moment... Not sure my beer belly will get under the beast...
You need to find an experienced automotive electrical person. It should take an hour or less to isolated your problem! If any load is pulling the voltage to zero that's not an open, that's a load causing a voltage drop across a high resistance, probably a bad connection or damaged wire. Needless to say you did make sure the battery is good.

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bbodie52
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by bbodie52 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:30 pm

:think: Has the fully charged battery been load tested? Just wondering if an internal problem with your existing battery might produce a power source fault under load? Also, you might temporarily remove the alternator from the circuit by disconnecting it and the voltage regulator to see if doing so has any impact on your electrical system under load.
:dontknow:
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

morevair
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Re: Well she died today

Unread post by morevair » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:25 pm

66vairguy and Brad…
Thanks for the new input, I’m not really sure you realize the battery probably should be reading 12.6 V worth reading 12.34, but the friend that was helping me Temporarily hotwired it and it turned over just fine… Not sure 52-year-old car lots of people of been in there before me I’ll just take it one piece at a time. But I really appreciate your input. Plus I’ll pass on your comments to him… Thanks

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