Can't get the brake lights to work

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Blair
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Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by Blair » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:06 pm

I cant figure out why the brake lights will not work. All of the fuses are brand new, the bulbs arent burnt out, and I can't find any wiring issues. I am not the best at wiring but i am learning. The guy that had this 64 monza before me rigged up the wiring terribly. From all the wires I saw I fixed all the frayed wires and corroded connectors. I included 2 pictures below. I cant see any words on the fuse box so I looked around the internet for a picture of the same one with no luck. Could someone on here could provide me with one? The yellow wire that is connected to the fuse box goes to the electric fuel pump. This is the only thing keeping me from taking it on the road. The tail lights also are not working and neither are the reverse lights. But that's the least of my concern. After all the work I've done to it I just don't want to get rear ended. I need brake lights.
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terribleted
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Re: Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by terribleted » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:29 pm

The bottom fuse you have installed should be stop and tail lamps.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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Steve62
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Re: Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by Steve62 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:36 pm

Is the brake light switch good? It's attached to the brake pedal bracket, and should close when the pedal is pushed. The PO of my '62 had disconnected it because the plastic threads were stripped, and the lights were always on. If I remember correctly, you should have constant voltage at one wire, and the other feeds the brake lights through the turn signal switch - another place to check. Do the rear turn signals work?
Could be better, could be worse...could be riding in a hearse!

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bbodie52
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Re: Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:10 am

Choose one of the schematic diagrams below and left-click on it (two times for maximum enlargement) so that you can see a close-up of the interior wiring. To the right of the fuse block you will see a representation of the turn signal switch, and above that the stop lamp switch. If you trace the wire exiting the stop lamp switch you will see that it enters the turn signal switch. The same bulb filaments (1157 bulbs) in the rear taillights that provide turn signals also provide brake lights. This is also true with the wiring associated with those bulbs. If the turn signals on the rear lights are functioning, then you know that the wiring and bulbs are functional for the brake lights as well. This means that the circuit is good all the way from the turn signal switch at the steering column to the taillights. Do your turn signals function properly at the rear of your car?

If the turn signals at the rear are functioning, but the brake lights failed to come on when you step on the brake pedal, you need to check the output voltage from the brake lamp switch at the brake pedal (while depressing the pedal). If you follow the schematic wiring diagram and trace the wire from the top of the stop lamp switch you will see that the stop lamp switch receives power from a connection to the main light switch. That power should be available to the stop lamp switch at all times and is not controlled by the ignition key position. If you can measure voltage going into the stop lamp switch, do you also measure voltage at the other terminal coming from the stop lamp switch when you depress the brake pedal?

If you determine that the stop lamp switch does have voltage and is passing it through when the brake pedal is depressed, the next place to check is the turn signal switch. When the turn signal switch is in the neutral position (turn signals off), the voltage applied from the stop lamp switch should pass straight through the turn signal switch and on to the taillights. When the turn signal (left or right) is activated, the turn signal switch temporarily disconnects the rear tail light on the chosen side from the brake light switch as a power source. The same rear brake light filament is temporarily reconnected to the output of the turn signal flasher (located in the fuse block). This causes the selected turn signal to flash, while the brake light on the opposite side remains connected to the stop lamp switch. In this way a driver following the Corvair will see both a continuous brake light on one side and a flashing turn signal on the other side, indicating that the car is both slowing down and turning. When the turn signal is canceled after making the turn, the turn signal flasher output voltage is disconnected and the connection is reestablished with the brake light switch output.

If you find that the turn signals on the rear of the car both function correctly, but the brake lights do not, you likely have a problem inside the turn signal switch. The internal contacts in the turn signal switch would be functioning properly in turns, but failing to make the connection between the stop lamp switch output and the rear tail light filaments when the turn signal switch is in the neutral position. Under such circumstances you should check the wiring harness connections at the turn signal switch on the steering column. If the connections are good but the switch is not functioning properly it may need to be replaced.

:link: http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog ... IN&page=87
Part number C861: DIRECTIONAL SWITCH 60-64 CARS CABLE CASING = C8077, WIRE = C8075

Weight: 0 lbs 8 oz
Catalog Pages(s): 87,OT,53
Price: $ 28.85


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Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing or "Pan & Scan"...
1964 Combined Passenger Compartment & Engine Compartment Wiring Diagram.jpg
1964 Combined Passenger Compartment & Engine Compartment Wiring Diagram
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In the schematic diagram below I have combined the engine compartment, interior and trunk wiring diagrams for the 1964 Corvair passenger car into a single diagram.

Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing or "Pan & Scan"...
1964 Corvair Passenger Car Combined Schematic.jpg
1964 Corvair Passenger Car Combined Schematic
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CORVAIR COMBINED WIRING SCHEMATIC DIAGRAMS
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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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terribleted
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Re: Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by terribleted » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:45 am

Blair states he has no brake light or tail lights (running lights). These circuits are separate except for the fuse powering them. There may indeed multiple issues going on here that might include the turn signals as well. I would be starting at the above mentioned fuse to verify power from there to the brake and tail lamp circuits.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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Located in Snellville, Georgia

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bbodie52
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Re: Can't get the brake lights to work

Unread post by bbodie52 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:29 am

:whoa: :redface: :banghead: I was too rushed and failed to read everything carefully...
Blair wrote:I cant see any words on the fuse box so I looked around the internet for a picture of the same one with no luck. Could someone on here could provide me with one? The yellow wire that is connected to the fuse box goes to the electric fuel pump. This is the only thing keeping me from taking it on the road. The tail lights also are not working and neither are the reverse lights. But that's the least of my concern. After all the work I've done to it I just don't want to get rear ended. I need brake lights
It appears that the fuse you should be concerned with is the second fuse up from the flasher, labeled TAIL/STOP DOME. This fuse provides power to the dome light and to the light switch (control of the taillights), and to the brake light switch at the brake pedal. The power wire that feeds all of this is labeled 16 B/OR (16gauge Black/Orange stripe). The power feed for the circuit is not switched, so all devices on the circuit have access to continuous battery power and are not controlled by the ignition switch position. If you have access to a multimeter, check for voltage at the input terminal on the brake light switch. (Ground the black wire on the multimeter and touch the red wire to the voltage input connector at the stop light switch — multimeter set to measure 12 V DC). If you can measure voltage going into the stop light switch at the brake pedal, and coming out of the stop light switch when you press the brake pedal, you know that your power source and fuse are good. The third fuse up provides power for the backup lights and heater.

Left-click the image to enlarge it for better viewing...
1964 Fuse Block and Fuse List.jpg
1964 Fuse Block and Fuse List
Another "common thread" to the taillights, brake lights, turn signal lights, and backup lights is the ten pin multi-connector in the engine compartment (on the left side, below the voltage regulator). This plastic shell encases 10 metal connectors that should make positive electrical contact when the two halves of the shell are fully seated. However, this connector is often more than 50 years old and is subject to years of vibration, moisture, and heat which can promote corrosion and poor electrical contact between the two halves. This could be a point of interruption for all of the taillights in the car. Again, using a multimeter, you can separate the two halves and follow the wire color codes to identify the terminals of interest on the firewall side of the connector. You should be able to measure voltage at the terminals that are responsible for taillights, brake lights, backup lights, etc. when the necessary switches are on. You should also examine the physical condition of the metal terminals to see if they are bent, damaged, or corroded. Sometimes simply unplugging the two halves and then re-seating them is enough to reestablish electrical continuity. But when the two halves are separated try to carefully examine all of the metal connectors to see if you can see any signs of burning or corrosion or connectors that are bent and may not be making contact with the other half.

Finally, check that each bulb housing is providing a good chassis ground return for each bulb socket. Also make sure that each bulb is the proper two terminal 1157 dual filament bulb, and that the guide/locking pins are properly positioned and seated. (You can confirm that each bulb socket is grounded by setting your multimeter to measure electrical continuity (ohms). Touch one test probe to the socket housing and the other to battery ground.

Each side of the car rear uses an 1157 bulb (also used in the trunk), which has two contacts and two filaments. Ground return for both filaments is the bayonet base/lamp socket. Each 1157 bulb only requires TWO WIRES — one for the tail lamp, and the other for the brighter (dual purpose) turn signal/brake filament.

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1156 bulbs only belong in the backup light sockets. The two locking pins n the 1157 bulb are positioned at different heights on the side of the bayonet base/lamp socket, to ensure that they are properly inserted.

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I have also attached appropriate sections of the 1961 Corvair Shop Manual and the 1964 supplement…

:chevy:
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1964 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems.pdf
1964 Supplement - Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems
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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems.pdf
1961 Chevrolet Corvair Shop Manual - Section 8 - Electrical Systems
(3.28 MiB) Not downloaded yet
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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