Lend a hand

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eriiczilla
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Lend a hand

Post by eriiczilla »

So the other day I was on my way to the gas station and out of nowhere my rear wheels lock up and i skid down the road about 40 yards!
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Pretty nuts..thankfully no one got hurt and i was towed back home safely.

So going through and troubleshooting the car (1960 700 PG) my best guess is one of the differentials broke and jammed itself in. The wheels lock when it's on the floor but move freeely when car is on jack stands. I removed ALL rear breaking systems and same thing happend.


SO!..I'm taking this as a sign its time to drop the power train and do all the maintenance work.
Does any one have an engine cradle i can borrow im on the northern east side of los angeles or can send ideas of how to keep the engine from crashing down.
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terribleted
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by terribleted »

Might also be a locked up engine.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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bbodie52
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by bbodie52 »

:think:
terribleted wrote:Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:22 pm

Might also be a locked up engine.
How would a locked up engine lock the rear wheels with a Powerglide torque converter and automatic transmission in the middle?
eriiczilla wrote:Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:09 pm

So the other day I was on my way to the gas station and out of nowhere my rear wheels lock up and i skid down the road about 40 yards!

So going through and troubleshooting the car (1960 700 PG) my best guess is one of the differentials broke and jammed itself in. The wheels lock when it's on the floor but move freely when car is on jack stands. I removed ALL rear breaking systems and same thing happened.
Disintegrated/jammed wheel bearing/axle on one side? Can rotate by hand when no weight is applied and the car is in the air. It seems that even if the differential gearset was locked between the two axles, it could still rotate forward or backward with both axles turning at the same rate and in the same direction (like a single solid axle). If the differential were to be locked it would only "fight" if the two axles were rotating at a different rate (as in a turn). If the differential were to be completely locked, it would still b locked with the wheels off of the ground.

Clark's Corvair Parts says: "The rear axle bearings are probably the most dangerous part of the whole car." It may appear that both axles are locked when the car is on the ground, but it might be only one side is locked when weight is applied. When weight has been removed by lifting the rear of the car, the axle on the good side may rotate freely and smoothly. Does the axle on the other side also rotate freely and smoothly?

Does the engine crank and start?

If a catastrophic failure occurred internally with the planetary gearset in the automatic transmission, could that lock the transmission output member and the associated drive pinion shaft, resulting in a locked differential ring gear? (Like putting an automatic transmission in PARK). If so, lifting the rear of the car would allow the differential gears to rotate around the drive gear.

A failure in the differential that locks the ring gear, or a failure in the transmission output drive shaft that locks the differential ring gear in place would lock the wheels with the car on the ground, but the wheels could still rotate independently if one or both wheels were lifted off of the ground because of the differential gearset.

:dontknow:

I have attached a guide for drivetrain removal. The following link will guide you to numerous shop manuals and technical guides in Adobe Reader format (can be downloaded at no cost) to help you. It also lists CORSA club chapters in your area. Contacting a nearby CORSA club might help you to find assistance for tackling a major repair on your Corvair, if you determine that a differential or transmission failure has occurred.

Common and Useful Corvair Websites

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=6007
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eriiczilla
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Re: RE: Re: Lend a hand

Post by eriiczilla »

bbodie52 wrote::think:
terribleted wrote:Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:22 pm

Might also be a locked up engine.
How would a locked up engine lock the rear wheels with a Powerglide torque converter and automatic transmission in the middle?
eriiczilla wrote:Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:09 pm

So the other day I was on my way to the gas station and out of nowhere my rear wheels lock up and i skid down the road about 40 yards!

So going through and troubleshooting the car (1960 700 PG) my best guess is one of the differentials broke and jammed itself in. The wheels lock when it's on the floor but move freely when car is on jack stands. I removed ALL rear breaking systems and same thing happened.
Disintegrated/jammed wheel bearing/axle on one side? Can rotate by hand when no weight is applied and the car is in the air. It seems that even if the differential gearset was locked between the two axles, it could still rotate forward or backward with both axles turning at the same rate and in the same direction (like a single solid axle). If the differential were to be locked it would only "fight" if the two axles were rotating at a different rate (as in a turn). If the differential were to be completely locked, it would still b locked with the wheels off of the ground.

Clark's Corvair Parts says: "The rear axle bearings are probably the most dangerous part of the whole car." It may appear that both axles are locked when the car is on the ground, but it might be only one side is locked when weight is applied. When weight has been removed by lifting the rear of the car, the axle on the good side may rotate freely and smoothly. Does the axle on the other side also rotate freely and smoothly?
Yes when in the air both move freely.
When either side is on the ground both tires lock
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by terribleted »

bbodie52 wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:15 pm :think:
terribleted wrote:Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:22 pm

Might also be a locked up engine.
How would a locked up engine lock the rear wheels with a Powerglide torque converter and automatic transmission in the middle?

It wouldn't. Might if it was a stick and it was in gear. This sentence was part of a post I started and then erased as I read again and saw the car was a PG. Internet and power were doing odd things about then and then went off. Looks like somehow I mistakenly posted one sentence out of context.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
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terribleted
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by terribleted »

So when they are in the air and you turn one side forward does the other side rotate rearwards? This would be normal for standard open differentials.

I like bbodie52's idea of a locked up output side of the transmission. Or maybe the differential pinion shaft locked up. Jammed pinion shaft would not allow both wheels to turn the same direction, but you could rotate the wheels off the ground 1 forward 1 reverse via the differential gears.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
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terribleted
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by terribleted »

You asked above about engine cradles. Here is a recent thread viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12849 showing davemotoheads cradle. This and a $160 (at my Harbor Freight) trans jack would be a great way to do this. I used a quality floor jack with a 6x6 lifting pad and a length of 2x10 for a very long time. This way was cumbersome and somewhat risky. It is fairly easy to drop the powertrain off the jack if it is not centered up just right. 2 to 3 people to help stabilize things while coming down or going up is a good idea if using this method.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

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66vairguy
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by 66vairguy »

As others said "when up in the air does one wheel turn opposite the other?" If so the two axles are turning via the spider/side gears. If someone holds one wheel and the other won't turn, then the differential ring and pinion are locked, possibly via the transmission.

Not to be rude, but your text suggests this project may be beyond your skills. Dropping a Corvair powertrain (best done with the engine and transaxle as one unit) is potentially dangerous for the uninformed. There is Calif. Corvairs, Dave Stratlund, and a few other Corvair repair folks in the L.A. area, including Dave Motohead up in the Palmdale area. The L.A. clubs can give you more information.
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eriiczilla
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by eriiczilla »

Just a quick update.. I got it on the floor safe and sound. Way easier than I presumed it would be.
Thanks for all the info guys. Ill let you know what I find when I dive in tomorrow!
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eriiczilla
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by eriiczilla »

So I found why the car won't budge.


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Re: Lend a hand

Post by terribleted »

Yeah that would be a locked up pinion bearing.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

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64powerglide
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by 64powerglide »

When in doubt add gear lube. :eek: Good luck getting it back on the road though. :tu:
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66vairguy
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by 66vairguy »

Sadly all too common. The pinion bearings are the most prone to fail if the gear oil is low or is not changed every 30K miles (more frequently if racing). Dan Drommerhausen in the SCC club in L.A., CA does manual transmission and differential rebuilds and says the number one reason for failures is old or low gear lube.

You should have the case magnafluxed for fractures due to the excess heat and trauma. At this point a good used differential might be less expensive to rebuild.
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Re: Lend a hand

Post by 66vairguy »

66vairguy wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:42 am Sadly all too common. The pinion shaft bearings are the most prone to fail if the gear oil is low or is not changed every 30K miles (more frequently if racing). Dan Drommerhausen in the SCC club in L.A., CA does manual transmission and differential rebuilds and says the number one reason for failures is old or low gear lube.

You should have the case magnafluxed for fractures due to the excess heat and trauma. At this point a good used differential might be less expensive to rebuild.
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