Spinner/Knockoffs

[axj7145]

Anyone ever seen any that look like this? These were handed down to me with the car. Two are missing the center sections but they are just plain other than saying left/right??? I'm stumped here.

[Nickshu]

They're not Corvair that I've seen. Engravings are on the inside on true Corvair KH knockoffs. Shape of the knockoff and adapter looks like KH however. For a different car. The only Corvette I know of that used two winged knockoffs was 1962 and those were exactly the same as Corvair. Clarks made repros at one time but the engraving was not on the outside of those either.

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[axj7145]

idk if you are a member of the corsa association but I just read an article that shows them as prototypes. I'll upload a picture from the magazine. Ive never seen another set like them other than in this photo. Very intrigued by them

[axj7145]

you can kind of read the article saying they are prototypes...sure look like them to me?

[axj7145]

From what I've found out KH was late in getting the wheels to GM. If I remember right they weren't offered until June/July. My car was built in April so I guess it would make sense if it is an actual Prototype Knockoff.

[Nickshu]

Wow that's cool!

Any interest in selling these to me??

What issue was that CORSA article in?

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[junkman]

In the production run, there was an arrow indicating OFF, or an arrow indicating ON, and it was up to the person doing the stamping which stamp that they used. I had a number of knock offs that had a lot of different stampings, and on one of them, it had the OFF stamp and arrow pointing at each other. I learned about the stamping procedure from an engineer at KH that sent me all the original drawings. Back then, quality control wasn't what it is today.
One way to know if they are prototypes, is to look at the wings of the knock off. Early 1962 knock offs were almost flat, and later on, they added a 15 degree offset to the wings, since people were missing the wing, and hitting the spokes.

[Nickshu]

Junkman your info always amazes me. I wish I could download your brain to my computer as a knowledge base!

[axj7145]

You know I'll have to look at them tonight when I get home from work and see what they look like. I suppose I could compare them to the other set of knock offs I got with the car that have the bowtie and say Chevrolet on them. I live in Michigan and I've encountered people that worked at the KH plant (I think it was in Jackson?)...unfortunately I've never come across someone old enough to have worked there when these were made. I got this information from Dave (historian for the corsa communique). He is one sharp fellow man let me tell you! I could talk to that guy for hours on end.

Nickshu: Sorry but they are not for sale. I'm one to never part with things as it is...let alone a car that's been in the family since it was new lol I will never part with the car or anything that came with it. Sorry!

Junkman: Can you upload the original drawings? Is there anyway to look at the wheels themselves and see if they are prototypes? I have two complete sets of wheels and knockoffs and I want to make sure I keep them separate. Didn't know if there was a way to tell them apart or not. If only I could find a picture of my car when it was new with those wheels on it!!! As of now I don't have any pictures at all when my grandpas brother owned the car...just when my grandpa had it. Grandpas brother was trying to find some slides for me but I haven't heard from him yet. I know Dave from corsa communique has been in touch with him as well.

[Nickshu]

Well thanks for considering at least. I have two sets of KH wheels, but one came with all left hand knockoffs. I've been searching for two right hand knock offs to complete the second set for quite awhile. Tough to find for sure. I have found wheels alone, adapters alone, but the knockoffs are the most rare part.

[axj7145]

Yea I agree with ya Nickshu...it amazes me that my grandfather kept all that stuff together. he always stored the wheels, knockoffs, and adapters all together so they stayed together. And if you knew my grandpa you'd know that's unlike him to do that haha he's as old school as they come and not very organized. Although he always seemed to know where things were. "....go look over in that pile about half way through and it should be there....yup found it!" Many of those conversations between the two of us. Clarks doesn't have used ones?

[Nickshu]

Clarks doesn't have used ones?

Um...no. Less than 600 sets were ever made of KH wheels for Corvairs. 1962-1964 were the only years. My guess is maybe 100-150 sets are still in existence, maybe less. It costs about $4000 to have a set restored by Dayton Wire Wheel Co., and that's alot of money to most Corvair owners, more than most Corvair's are worth! Clarks did have reproductions of the original knockoffs at one time but they are long gone. They currently sell reproduction wire wheels, but they do not match the KH wheels and the adapters/knockoffs are not interchangeable. My understanding of the problem was that there's a couple years of Corvettes that use the same knockoffs. The Corvette guys would buy the Corvair wheels, throw away the wheels and adapters, and keep the knockoffs. Bummer.

[junkman]

Junkman your info always amazes me. I wish I could download your brain to my computer as a knowledge base!

I am old enough to remember these cars when they were first introduced, and I had a 1962 and a 1963 when they were new. My roommate in college had a loaded 1964 Spyder with the KH wheels, and they intrigued me when I saw them for the first time on a 1962 Spyder. Around 1980, I purchased a 1964 Spyder with the KH wheels, and that is when I dug into the history of them. I contacted KH, and was put into contact with the engineer that worked on the project. He had lots of time on his hands, and shared all he knew about the wheels. He sent me copies of the original wheel drawings, and I have them all, with the exception of the 1964 knock off center emblem. He was never able to locate that drawing in the files.

Clarks doesn't have used ones?

Um...no. Less than 600 sets were ever made of KH wheels for Corvairs. 1962-1964 were the only years. My guess is maybe 100-150 sets are still in existence, maybe less. It costs about $4000 to have a set restored by Dayton Wire Wheel Co., and that's alot of money to most Corvair owners, more than most Corvair's are worth! Clarks did have reproductions of the original knockoffs at one time but they are long gone. They currently sell reproduction wire wheels, but they do not match the KH wheels and the adapters/knockoffs are not interchangeable. My understanding of the problem was that there's a couple years of Corvettes that use the same knockoffs. The Corvette guys would buy the Corvair wheels, throw away the wheels and adapters, and keep the knockoffs. Bummer.

The total number of sets was approximately 400 (2000 wheels, plus extras for GM parts inventory) for the 3 years that the Corvair used these wheels, based on the information that I was provided back in the early 1980's by the KH engineer. I don't know how many sets are left, and I have a gut feeling that there are more sets of original wheels still in existence that many people think. I myself have probably 5 or 6 sets left, since I was buying them when they were still showing up at swap meets. I also have sold a number of sets and parts through the years. I remember one year, a fellow came from California to the Fall or Spring Carlisle PA swap meet with more than 20 complete sets that he was selling for roughly $800 - $1200 a set (4 wheels, 4 adapter, & 4 knock offs), depending on condition.* He sold all of them in less than 24 hours. I don't know how many sets were snapped up by the Corvette people just wanting the knock offs, but I suspect that most of them went to Corvair owners. I didn't see many spare wheels being offered for sale during that meet, or any subsequent meets. Over the years, I did find some knock offs separately, and the same with wheels, however, I don't ever remember finding an adapter without a wheel.

*I was curious as to how he acquired so many KH wheels, and he told me that he worked at a salvage yard, and that they came off of cars that were scrapped, and put into a building on the property over many years. He made a deal with the owner of the yard to take them to PA to sell them. He also told me that a lot of people that owned the 1960's Datsun Fairlady cars also were buying them, back in California.

To address the Corvette "connection" to the 2 bar knock offs, I have heard many different stories, ranging from they were used only on the earliest Corvettes that used the knock off type of wheel, to they never used the 2 bar knock off. I have never been able to get a definitive answer as to what the "officials" at the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) have to say on the subject, but then I haven't tried very hard to get this information. I am certain that a definitive answer is available if someone wanted to pursue the question. Most of the Corvettes that I have seen that have the knock off wheels, use the 3 bar knock off.