Electric engine fans

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dbmoseley
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Electric engine fans

Post by dbmoseley »

I am very interested in having an electric cooling fan on my engine and replacing the belt driven fan. Anyone have any input in this? I found a site that builds kits just for Corvairs. http://www.corvairspecialties.com/streetfankit.html
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flat6_musik
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by flat6_musik »

Oh wow....I've never seen that before! I'll bet that would really help in the 1/4 mile times, freeing up another 25 HP. The only problem I could foresee is that if it ever took a dump, you're done. Not so with the stock setup, when you have an extra belt.
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flashpoint
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by flashpoint »

Ok but does it work?
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by miniman82 »

This comes up all the time on VW forums. Simple fact is that if it takes 25hp to drive the fan at max RPM, it takes the same power out of an electric motor. Ever seen the size of a 25hp electric motor? I don't wonder if it works... Drag racing maybe, but no way would I trust my (turbocharged!) daily driver to that little fan.
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DEBEER
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by DEBEER »

its about cfms. so IF it has the same or more cfms as the stock fan at 4500 rpms or what ever rpm then it should work and I would want a way for it to have a low speed setting for when the engine is worming up to reduce hotspots
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dbmoseley
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by dbmoseley »

The web site is stating at 3000 rpm the standard belt driven fan produces 1850 CFM. The site states the electric fan will produce 2500 CFM. It is also switched thermally through a cylinder head temp sensor.
The stock fan is claimed to rob your engine of 25 horses but to say you have to have a 25 horse elec motor to do the same thing doesn't make sense to me. I am not arguing, just trying to understand. I am sure part of the 25 horse loss comes with a belt, idler pulley, tension, alternator, and so forth. I am also sure you are not going to gain back 25 horses because you put an electric fan on but you should gain quite a bit. The fan appears to be every bit as large as a stock fan and also is designed better than the stock fan.
I wonder if anyone has designed a better fan to be used with the belt system.
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azdave
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by azdave »

This comes up about once a year on corvaircenter and has been beaten to death. If switching to electric was a viable soultion then you would see more people converting over.

Moving air is not as simple as comparing CFMs. It also has to do with the ability to create air pressure. I'm sure it can work for some people in some special situations but it's not worth the trouble for most of us.
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by miniman82 »

That's just it: 2500 CFM blowing into a room is one thing, forcing that same amount of air through the passages in the head and cylinders in a different animal entirely. That's where the power the fan eats up comes from, and there's no way an electric motor that small is up to the task.
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Bobby65
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by Bobby65 »

ive seen this, it seems like an alright idea, its a better fan design, it might work, but i would need a little more faith before i spent $400 on it, and all the power you gained would be put into the extra draw on the alternator, you would be better off adapting the fan off a porsche
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Scott V
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by Scott V »

Bobby65 wrote:ive seen this, it seems like an alright idea, its a better fan design,
how do you know its a better fan design? does it move more air w/less power? does it have higher pressure w/less power?

i havent seen any *real* tests for the fan & the info he has on his web site is a joke. he says the fan moves 4596 CFM @ 4 PSI. doesnt pass a quick sniff test. that would be about 3x the cfm & 11x the pressure of the stock fan. thats just bs.

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flat6_musik
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by flat6_musik »

Bobby65 wrote:ive seen this, it seems like an alright idea, its a better fan design, it might work, but i would need a little more faith before i spent $400 on it, and all the power you gained would be put into the extra draw on the alternator....
Oh exactly. I know you're probably not gaining much, if anything, and yes you'll be putting just more load on the alternator. I was thinking in a drag race situation, just rely on a battery only for the short 1/4 mile run.
Scott V wrote:
Bobby65 wrote:ive seen this, it seems like an alright idea, its a better fan design,
how do you know its a better fan design? does it move more air w/less power? does it have higher pressure w/less power?

i havent seen any *real* tests for the fan & the info he has on his web site is a joke. he says the fan moves 4596 CFM @ 4 PSI. doesnt pass a quick sniff test. that would be about 3x the cfm & 11x the pressure of the stock fan. thats just bs.
Well, it sure LOOKS like a better fan design. It sort of mimics a modern turbo impeller; the stock fan looks like Fred Flintstone designed it. So anyway, let's just assume it's a better fan design, if only a little bit. If that electric motor can maintain a specific RPM, then I don't see how it CAN'T be up to the task!.....CFM, air pressure, whatever! It's like spinning the stock fan @ 3500 RPM constantly by using an electric motor. If the stock fan will put out max output @ 3500, then having an electric motor spin it @ that should be suffice, IMO.

However....I got a kick outta this:
Customer Testimonial: "I have to say that what I am seeing in the pictures, the build quality is 1st rate, and I love that you made it to work and look factory." -- Dave Awdish, Auto Masters Corp.
Not tryin' to slam the guy, but......that's a weak testimonial. LOL
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Bobby65
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by Bobby65 »

i think it may work, but your not really gaining anything by switching it
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by Scott V »

flat6_musik wrote:Well, it sure LOOKS like a better fan design. It sort of mimics a modern turbo impeller; the stock fan looks like Fred Flintstone designed it. So anyway, let's just assume it's a better fan design, if only a little bit. If that electric motor can maintain a specific RPM, then I don't see how it CAN'T be up to the task!.....CFM, air pressure, whatever! It's like spinning the stock fan @ 3500 RPM constantly by using an electric motor. If the stock fan will put out max output @ 3500, then having an electric motor spin it @ that should be suffice, IMO.

well thats the problem w/assumptions & not dealing w/facts. :-)

ok - lets assume that its only a little bit better than a stock fan. @ 3500 rpm the stock fan is using something like 3 hp to move the amount of air the engine needs to keep cool. if you seen the size of a 3 hp 12v electric motor? lets say that the fan is so good that its better than any fan design in the world & it only takes 1/3 of the power of the stock fan. have you seen the size of a 1 hp 12v electric motor? the size of the motor on his site is looks like no bigger than a 1/3 hp - probably a 1/5 hp.

stuff may look good & people can say whatever they want on their web site but facts are facts & assumptions are assumptions.

btw - you may think the stock fan looks like fred flintstone designed it - but its a very well designed fan for what it needs to do.

-Scott V.
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Bobby65
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by Bobby65 »

his fan has curves on the edge of its blades, that will help pull air into it, the stock fan just throws the air out (centrifugal force) that gets pulled into it, the air gets pulled in due to the vacuum created when the air is displaced (blown over the engine) and vacuum is not that powerful of a force, that's why intake valves are bigger than exhaust, so having those vanes to "scoop" the air in will help, maybe not gain you any on a belt driven stock engine, but it would increase flow at the same rpm, chevrolet did that (curved edges) with their EM steel fans, when they switched to magnesium, my guiess is that they had the flat vanes because of casting efficiency, but no need to get worked up over the efficiency of a fan guys
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azdave
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by azdave »

EDIT: I just cleaned up a few posts and also deleted two that did not belong in the discussion.

If you disagree with someone please be civil if pointing out flaws and present facts to prove your point.

Thanks.
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cvair4life
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Re: Electric engine fans

Post by cvair4life »

I just e-mailed Keith to see if he's done any real bench testing on his fan. Says he's an Engineer so he may have data to back it up. We'll wait and see.

If not..... maybe I can talk him into sending me one of his setups and I'll do a full fledged bench test myself. I may not have a lot of skills in life... but being a nerdy bench scientist is one of those rare skills I do posses.

Sadly tuning @#$@ corvair carburetors is not. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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