Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

All Models and Years
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

Ok so I'm still trying to get my 1965 110 running :banghead: . I know the engine hasn't run in years. I did have the carbs rebuilt, they were a little rusty inside and the fuel had varnished. I also replaced the fuel pump figuring that was also bad. Now after connecting everything back up I still don't get any suction from the pump. I removed the pump and the pump rod. Trying to get the pump rod out was very difficult. Should it be very hard to remove? I inspected the rod and it appears fine, inserted it again, removed the coil and had someone (my 11yr old) crank the engine. If I apply pressure to the pump rod it doesn't move :think: . Any ideas on what I I should do next? I know.. I know.. get an electric pump. I'm sure at some point that will probably happen for now I'd just like to get it running.

-Rindress
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
User avatar
65Ragtop
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by 65Ragtop »

The pump rod should not be difficult to remove. I presume you have a new pump, eh? The pump rod is not bent, somehow? When you install the new pump, you should be able to move it around up and down in order to line up the dimple in the body with the bolt that holds it down in place. Back the lock nut off and hand tighten the bolt into the dimple. Snug the bolt using a torque wrench 9 to 15 ft lbs and tighten the lock nut to the same torque. If you over tighten the bolt you can distort the pump case causing the pump rod/case to bind and thus not go up and down installed as you mentioned.

Be sure you have the right pump, too. If I recall, some of the very early models (60-61) had a shorter pump rod.
Mike S.
65 Corsa 140 Ragtop
CORSA member
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

Mike,
The rod is VERY difficult to get out. I need to use a hook to remove it and I have to use a lot of strength to remove it. Once it's freed up it seems to be ok. So I'd say it's about the last inch, as you are inserting the rod, that really binds up. So it is possible that it's bent. My concern is that the eccentric piece that moves the rod up and down has a problem. Is it possible for that piece to wear down?

When inserting the pump it seems to go fine. I finger tigheten the bolt then lock the other one down being careful not to over tighten things. This is a 1965 and I've measured the rod and it's 3 13/16 inch, which based on the Clarks catalog that is the proper size.

Anyone have an idea how much travel the rod should have when the engine cranks over? Does it move a small amount, like 1/16 inch or more like 1/4? If I push down on the rod and crank the engine I assume I should feel it move up an down correct? Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Rindress
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
User avatar
65Ragtop
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by 65Ragtop »

While anything is possible, the wearing down of the eccentric "cam" for the fuel pump to any great extent is not probable in most cases. I think the rod on the pump would wear down first. Never say never, though. Cam eccentricity is about 1/10 of an inch. Do you still have the old fuel pump rod? if so, try and swap it out and see if that helps. Sounds like the rod, if not bent, could be mushroomed slightly on the cam end. That might explain why it is so hard to pull out. You could also try and bevel the edges of the sticking rod end slightly with a file and see if that works. Just don't overdo it.

And yes, if you push down on the rod you should feel it move up and down a bit.

If your pump is a rebuilt unit, check the detent on the pump body, if it has been over tightened in the past by a PO (likely) the hole could be enlarged/deformed enough to allow the bolt to go in to far and contact the rod. file down the point on the bolt a little and re install.

Hope this helps a little.
Mike S.
65 Corsa 140 Ragtop
CORSA member
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

Mike,
I realized it was a LONG shot about the eccentric cam. I was thinking the same thing myself. Who would engineer something that you would need to replace the cam if the $5 rod gets stuck. So tonight I removed the alternate and the bracket to get better access to the hole the rod is inserted into. So if I rotate the rod while it is being pushed down there definitely is a "looser" position. Opposite is true while removing the rod, if I twist it while removing the rod it really gets jammed. So now I assume the rod itself is bent, does that make sense? Should I remove the plugs so I can rotate the engine by hand to see the condition of the eccentric part of the cam?

Thanks for all your help :ty:

-Rindress

--------------------------------
1965 Monza Convertible
CORSA member
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
User avatar
65Ragtop
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by 65Ragtop »

It couldn't hurt to pull the plugs and rotate the engine in order to get a feel for the cam as part of the process of elimination. If the cam checks out, sounds like you will need a new pump rod if you can't straighten or clean up the old one. Good Luck! :chevy:
Mike S.
65 Corsa 140 Ragtop
CORSA member
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

An update to the situation....

I received my new fuel pump rod yesterday from Clarks. It certainly made a difference. When I inserted it the rod slid right down without force like the other one. This must be a good sign right... Nope, still no fuel :doh: . Now I'm thinking it's time to switch to electric. I know the advantages I just thought maybe, just maybe, it would be easier to keep it setup the way it was from the factory.

My question now is where to place the electric fuel pump. I know a bunch of people locate it close to the tank on the passenger side of the vehicle. Is there any reason you wouldn't put it in the rear, basically near the starter? Seems that the fuel line is already separated there and you have access to power from the harness in the engine compartment. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks in advance,
Rindress
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
Motornoggin
Corvair of the Year
Corvair of the Year
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:19 pm
Location: Laramie, WY.

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by Motornoggin »

Electric fuel pumps are better at pushing fuel than they are at pulling fuel. Mounting it as close as possible to the tank gives it the best chance of working properly.
bjbuchanan
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:02 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by bjbuchanan »

I mounted mine right near the passenger toe board for a couple reasons

1. The crossmember that runs along there is a shield in place there to protect the pump from head on road debris which is a nice little advantage

2. Like motornoggin said, electric pumps prefer to push than pull and having it right there near the pump has 1-14 gallons of fuel pushing against that sucker, it will give it a nice gravity feed to the pump

3. The fuel sender has a ground right there that chances are is probably in crappy shape already so it could use a cleaning. I cleaned the rust and junk off and ground my pump to the same as the fuel sender


Also If you put a little rubber on the mount for the pump it really kills the vibration good and helps quiet it a bit. A regulator after the pump helps to quiet it also because it will pump less making it a little quieter. Make sure that you buy one of the electric pumps that do like 2-4.5 psi because over 4.5 lbs the needle and seat get overwhelmed and put extra gas through the carb. Running a low pressure pump too can eliminate a need for a regulator saving you 20-30$
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

Boy it's great to have so many people willing to help. I really appreciate it, very good advice too.

So now that it looks like I should get an electric pump, between 2-4.5 psi, I assume that most people mean the Airtex pump like http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8016S-Ele ... B000C1LW0E. I also noticed that my gas gauge is not working. I suppose this would be a good time to replace that? I did hear a number of people say it is MUCH easier if you use the special wrench, which Clarks sells for about $30. Do people agree? Now for the safety part. There is an auto shutoff based on oil pressure. Do most people use that setup? Also there is no need for the fuel pump, however; I did see a piece you can buy for about $30 that replaces the diaphram part and you leave the 'original look'. Has anyone used that? Seems like a much cleaner looking setup, by cleaner I mean more original.

Thanks,
Rindress

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 110hp
CORSA member
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
User avatar
65Ragtop
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:45 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by 65Ragtop »

Electric is the way to go these days. Lots of good advise in the previous posts. I have the fuel tank wrench and think it is worth the $, but then again I like to work with the right tool for the job. You can certainly get the sending unit out without it, it is just not as clean and easy. I like easy. Get it if you can afford it.

bjbuchanen mentioned the ground right there. It is always getting corroded and dirty due to it's exposed location and is an area that requires some maintenance on occasion.....try cleaning it up and see if the gas guage works.

I would recommend the oil pressure shut off unit for sure.

I have seen the fuel pump conversions (for looks). Never used the idea, not my cup of tea. I like the look with the fuel pump hole plugged and the fuel lines cleaned up. But, having said that, if the stock look is favorable to you, there are a lot of guys out there who have done it and like it.
Mike S.
65 Corsa 140 Ragtop
CORSA member
rindress
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:21 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by rindress »

Mike,
Thanks a bunch for the insight. I'll have a look at the ground to see if maybe that's the problem with the sending unit. As for the electric pump I did pickup a pump this weekend. It looks exactly like the Airtex E8016S, even has the same model number, but is made by a different manufacturer. The parts person at Auto Zone said it was the same part, I believe it.

I do like the 'stock' look of having the fuel pump in there, however; maybe I'm just saying that for simplicity. I'll have to think about it some more to see if maybe the plug wouldn't be a better idea.

As always thanks to you, and everyone else, for such great insight and suggestions.

-Rindress

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible
CORSA Member
Rindress
Hollis, NH
CORSA Member
1965 Monza vert 110hp
1965 Corsa 110hp
miniman82
Posts: 1216
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Great Mills, MD
Contact:

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by miniman82 »

I machined a blank off plug to go where the old one went after installing the electric pump, it looks a lot better than a pumps that always fails to do it's job.
Image
Click it!
bjbuchanan
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:02 am

Re: Problems with Fuel Pump / Pump Rod

Post by bjbuchanan »

Taking the pump out of the engine really cleans up the area nicely, unclutters that portion of the engine in a big way. I cut my pump at the base of it, above the o-ring and jb welded a small 7/16" bolt in the center of the pump. I would put up pics but im away from the car in college right now.

65ragtop is definitely right about seeing if that ground is why your gauge isn't working. You might also need to clean up the sending unit's contacts, old gas and gunk could have corroded it.

I personally have only an on/off toggle switch for my electric pump and it is extremely simple to hook up(obviously). The oil pressure switch is undeniably safer and not difficult to do, there are plenty of write ups out there.It's a matter of safety and whether you feel unsafe without it

I flipped the metal fuel lines in my engine compartment (some bending and tweaking obviously) but for the most part the lines can almost be reused. Tuck it under the balance tube in the back and its super clean and outta the way. Connecting the lines to the carbs will take probably more line on the right side to connect up. The replacement diaphragm would make the install super straightforward if stock is your look though
Post Reply

Return to “Ask your Mechanical Questions here”