Pro Series Distributor

All Models and Years
lalkie01
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Pro Series Distributor

Post by lalkie01 »

I am looking for reviews and information on the pro series distributor for my 65 corsa. Also information on the electronic distributor clarks sells. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Larry

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bbodie52
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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by bbodie52 »

:think: The replacement Stinger electronic distributor is appropriate if your Corsa is a non-turbocharged, normally aspirated Corsa. If you have a turbocharged Corsa, you will need the timing and pressure retard that are a part of the original Delco distributor. In that case you would likely want only a breakerless inition upgrade such as those offered by Pertronix (Pertronix Ignitor I or Ignitor II) or the optical trigger unit offered by Crane Cams/FAST (XR700).

ELECTRONIC DISTRIBUTOR UPGRADE/REPLACEMENT OPTIONS

:link: viewtopic.php?f=225&t=15101


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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

lalkie01
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Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by lalkie01 »

Thanks for the info. I have the-carb version and having trouble with surging. I can't find a vacuum leak and have checked the float level in the carbs. I have the
timing advanced about .75 inches past the end of the timing marks. This has helped with the surging at 2000 rpm in first and second. I have also plugged the vacuum line to the vacuum advance. The car runs well at rpm's above 2000. No pinging and the temp gauge generally runs between 350 and 400. Larry

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bbodie52
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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by bbodie52 »

Timing Accuracy: Have you checked the harmonic balancer to verify that the outer ring has not slipped?

You should also confirm that your harmonic balancer outer ring has not slipped. The outer ring is pressed on and held in place by a rubber ring between the center hub and the outer ring. The outer ring can loosen with age so that it begins to slip, which can make your timing mark inaccurate. Check the slip-check reference marks on the harmonic balancer to ensure the accuracy of your ignition timing setting.

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bbodie52 wrote:A harmonic balancer was specified on all 164 CI engines from 1964 through 1969 (except for the 95 hp version). The harmonic balancer was intended to prolong the life of the crankshaft by reducing the possibility of stress fractures from crankshaft harmonics in the long stroke crankshaft. If present and visible, the slip check reference mark should line up between the center hub and the outer ring, showing that there has been no slippage between the hub and the outer ring, which is held in place by a press-fit using a rubber component sandwiched between the two metal components. If the slip check reference mark is not present, the timing mark on the outer ring must be in-line with the crankshaft woodruff key. The woodruff key is a machine element used to connect a rotating pulley or harmonic balancer to the crankshaft. The key prevents relative rotation between the two parts, and ensures proper alignment with the crankshaft journal associated with the number one piston at Top Dead Center.

If you ever need to replace a defective harmonic balancer, a new harmonic balancer should be purchased because the lifespan of the three-piece harmonic balancer is limited and purchasing a used, aging harmonic balancer may not be an economical choice. This is because there is no way to predict how much life is left in the used component. The pictures below will explain the variations found in pulley design over the various Corvair model years, and shows how the pulley or harmonic balancer establishes a known reference point for crankshaft and ignition system timing.

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In this picture, you can see (from left to right) the woodruff key, the distributor drive gear, the fuel pump push rod cam lobe, the main journal, and connecting rod journals 1 and 2.
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heck to make sure that your secondary carburetor throttles are closing completely and are not sticking partially open. The accelerator pump mechanism and spring inside the secondary carburetor helps to close the throttle butterfly.

Make sure that the gaskets and insulators are all present and in good condition at the base of each carburetor. There should be a gasket above and below the insulator. Sometimes owners omit the insulator and install only a sing;e gasket. This can cause too much heat to transfer from the hot air-cooled cylinder head and intake manifold to the carburetor body, which can cause fuel to boil inside the carburetor and cause unstable operation.

The vacuum advance should be properly connected to the vertical spark port on the right carburetor. On the 140 hp distributor, the centrifugal advance begins to engage at about 800 RPM, and does not reach full timing advance until about 2800 RPM. The vacuum advance mechanism brings on needed timing advance at the lower RPM operating speeds, and begins to disengage as the engine speed increases and the throttle setting opens more. At higher engine speeds, the engine advance job transitions gradually from the vacuum advance to the centrifugal advance, but both timing subsystems are designed to work together to properly cover varying engine speeds and engine timing advance needs at all power (throttle) settings.

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If the distributor is worn, timing drive gear is loose, etc. there could be dwell variations in the points, causing timing variations and inconsistencies.

It is not a bad idea to relocate the coil mount position. The standard installation of the ignition coil was always mounting it directly on the right cylinder head. The cylinder head on an air cooled engine gets very hot, and a significant portion of that heat can be transferred via the coil mounting bracket to the coil body itself. I would recommend relocating any coil as shown in the pictures below.

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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by terribleted »

What ignition are you using right now? What is your engine? If you are running points something you need to check is the point plate. These wear at the bushing where they pivot to allow mechanical advance. With the cap off push in and pull out on the arm of the pivot plate that runs the vacuum advance. If it moves in and out at all it is bad and should be replaced. In and out movement will allow the timing to change in operation and can result in surging. If your current ignition is not points but still uses the stock point plate the same still applies. If you have a pertronics unit they generally have their own different point plate and this is likely not the issue. I hope you reconnected the vacuum advance after seeing if disconnecting it made a difference. Sticky or worn mechanical advance arms in the distributor or a badly worn distributor shaft bushing allowing lateral slop in the distributor shaft might also cause surging.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
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lalkie01
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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by lalkie01 »

The harmonic balancer looks good. The carbs are not leaking nor can I find a vacuum leak. The secondary carbs are closing all the way. I am using points as my crane 700 failed. I replaced the coil at the stock location as it failed. The vacuum advance line is connected to the right rear carb upright port. I think it is probably the plate in the distributor or the distributor itself is why I am thinking of changing the distributor. Has anyone tried the pro series distributor? Larry

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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by terribleted »

I have no idea what a "pro series " distributor is.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

lalkie01
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Re: Pro Series Destributor

Post by lalkie01 »

A pro series distributor is an electronic distributor that cost $130.00 listed as a R2R on a number of sites on the net.It does not require a secondary electronic box. Can't seem to find anyone that has purchased one for a corvair. Just looking for someone that has tried one. Larry

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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by bbodie52 »

I believe the "Pro Series" is synonymous with the Stinger Distributor...
:link: https://www.perfvair.com/stinger-ignition-distributors/
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Pro-Billet Distributors are available with
Blue, Red or Black HEI or OEM-Style Caps.

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All-new racing distributor for the Corvair motor. Magnetic-pulse pickup triggers your choice of external electronics box (Like MSD-6, TSP or Intellitronix). Has adjustable mechanical advance. (Vaccum is an option). Mechanical advance can be locked out, if desired. Will act as crank or cam positional sensor for EFI systems. Vacuum block-off plate is installed for competition. Uses easily available GM parts and aftermarket accessories. Optional cap designs and colors for HEI cap or OEM style well-type cap. Cap clears top shroud and fan belt pulleys.
The link below will lead you to some comments on this replacement high-performance electronic breakerless distributor for the Corvair...

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Top-Street-Performance-JM7732BK-Distributor???
:link: http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,851402


Corvair Forum Logo.jpg
Stinger Distributor Questions
:link: viewtopic.php?t=14630

:confused:
:google: :search: "corvair stinger distributor reviews"
:link: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH ... CAw&uact=5
Brad Bodie
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Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by terribleted »

I have installed a few of the Stinger units. They seem to work very well.

The point plate in the stock distributor is is easy to change uses 2 screws and lifts out. Rebuilt point plate are about 10% of the cost of a distributor conversion. I stated above how to check yours. Wear that would cause surging in the mechanical advance part of the distributor or bushing wear is not a common issue but does exist.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

lalkie01
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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by lalkie01 »

The stinger distributor requires a electronic box outside the the distributor. The pro series does not require an external box. I am thinking about replacing the plate in the distributor but would need to check the distributor to see that it is in good shape. I find it unusual that a distributor would wear out in about 78,000 miles. Thanks for the help I will continue to work with what I have until I can determine the exact problem. Larry

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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by terribleted »

I am trying to tell you that plate wear is common. bushing wear is much less common. Whether the mechanical advance system binds at all depends what environment it has been exposed to. Most times they are fine or some cleaning and lube makes them fine. Check the point plate. The arm that comes out the side to push the vacuum advance should move only to the right and left as it would when actuating the vacuum advance. Any in and out movement (toward the distributor shaft) will change the timing as it moves around with points for sure. An LED pickup like the Crane/ Fast unit uses is less effected by this slop. If the arm has no slop in and out the plate is fine and you need to look further for your issue.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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bbodie52
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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by bbodie52 »

lalkie01 wrote: » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:49 pm

...The stinger distributor requires a electronic box outside the the distributor. The pro series does not require an external box...
There is no external electronic box required by the Stinger distributor, but it is compatible with many external performance ignition system boxes and coils. The primary requirement is a full 12 VDC power source for the Stinger distributor internal electronics, and an external coil that operates with the same power source.
Seth Emerson wrote:So, in about 2011, at the SEMA show, I found a company in Southern California that supplied GM HEI style V8
distributors for uncommon (non-OEM) cars, like Fords and Chryslers. I explained what I was seeking and supplied them
with parts and data needed to build the Corvair distributor, based on the last of the GM V6 points units, but with
internal electronics to make a “ready-to-run” system, with no external box needed. They were already producing similar
external-coil units for the GM V8. After going through a couple of prototypes, we finalized the production unit a few
years ago. That is the distributor for the Corvair.

Design and Construction
The basic mechanical design of the new distributor is based on the GM V6 supplied in the 60s. That GM unit was based on the Chevy V8 distributor used from 1957 through 1972. That means dozens of aftermarket accessories will work with the basic distributor. The internal electronics are not the same as the GM HEI units sold after 1973. They are, however, used on many other aftermarket “small-cap” distributors, most of which use that same basic design. Instead of the original GM brass sleeve, the new distributor uses a sealed ball bearing. A boon for the racers, the springs and weights are located just under the cap, you don’t have to remove the pick-up plate or points plate to adjust them, as you do on the OEM distributor. The rotor is the standard GM rotor used on V8s since 1957, into the 70s. The Magnetic pick-up and reluctor is the same design used on millions of Fords over the years. The cap supplied with the unit was an HEI pin type cap, either red or black. An OEM style well-type cap is available in three colors, red, black and blue, at extra cost. There are also OEM-style (1966 Buick) caps, complete with an unused slide window available in black at auto parts stores. These OEM-style well-type caps can use standard wire sets.

Standard Equipment and Requirements
The wiring is simple – three wires out to power and run the unit. The extra gray wire provides a digital pulse tach output signal for your use. Some use it to feed an RPM signal to a Fuel Injection. The internal electronic package is designed to run on a full 12 volts. The resistance wire in the engine compartment harness (or the separate resister on some Spyders) must be bypassed to provide a full 12 Volts to the unit. In addition, the coil must be designed to run on a full 12 Volt power, all the time, with no external resister. Appropriate coils are available. The standard Corvair coil is not recommended. The coil should be marked “Not for use with external resistor.”
Read the attached Care and Feeding of Stinger Distributor for details about the history, origins, and design of the new Corvair distributor. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE AN EXTERNAL ELECTRONICS BOX. The website states: "Magnetic-pulse pickup triggers your choice of external electronics box (Like MSD-6, TSP or Intellitronix)." But it also triggers high performance coils and will handle high current, low resistance coils (0.6 Ω) like the Pertronix FLAME-THROWER II coil. IT CAN ALSO RUN WITH A CONVENTIONAL IGNITION COIL, BUT IT SHOULD BE ONE THAT IS DESIGNED FOR RUNNING WITH A FULL 12 VDC INPUT. The standard Corvair Delco coil is designed to only run on 12 VDC when the engine is being cranked, so that it can provide a somewhat higher spark voltage to help with starting a cold engine cranking at starter motor speeds. When the Corvair engine starts, the starter solenoid disengages and the resistor wire (or external ballast resistor on some Spyders) reduces the coil input voltage to a nominal 7 VDC. THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THE HIGH PERFORMANCE STINGER DISTRIBUTOR. Both the Stinger distributor, and the ignition coil, should be fed with a full 12 VDC input to power the internal magnetic pulse breakerless ignition electronics,and to power a high performance coil. A 3 Ω primary standard coil (not the Corvair Delco 1.5 Ω standard coil) or a high performance aftermarket 1.5 Ω or 0.6 Ω coil that is intended “Not for use with external resistor” will be fine. The standard Delco 1.5 Ω has a primary winding that is not intended for continuous 12 VDC power, and would likely overheat and/or have a reduced lifespan under this type of power. A coil with a 3.0 Ω internal primary is intended to be used without an external resistor. High performance coils like the Pertronix Flame-Thrower (3.0 Ω or 1.5 Ω) of Flame-Thrower II (0.6 Ω) will all work with the Stinger electronics doing the switching. The high performance coils are all capable of continued operation with a high primary current driven by by full nominal 12 VDC battery voltage/charging system voltage. However, the Corvair engine operates with a low compression ratio of 8.0:1 or 9.0:1 at relatively low RPM speeds, and the six cylinder configuration coupled with low engine speeds gives all of these coils plenty of time to charge the coil between each ignition system spark plug pulse. The low compression ratio makes and low RPM engine operating speed range makes it easy to reliably fire the spark plugs. The turbocharged engine is most likely the one to benefit form the higher spark plug voltages, due to the higher combustion chamber pressures under turbo boost, but realistically any coil designed to function without an external ballast resistor will work properly with the Stinger ignition control electronics. The world of the Corvair engine makes very low demands on the ignition coil.
Attachments
Care and Feeding of Stinger Distributor Rev C.pdf
Care and Feeding of Stinger Distributor
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Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

lalkie01
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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by lalkie01 »

Thanks for all the information. It hope it helps others. I haven't had a chance to check the plate in my distributor. I am now leaning toward a stinger distributor. Thanks Again. Larry

lalkie01
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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by lalkie01 »

Will my tach work with the stinger distributor?

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bbodie52
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Re: Pro Series Distributor

Post by bbodie52 »

The Stinger distributor functions as a transistor-controlled on/off electronic switch that takes the place of mechanical ignition points. The points are a simple electric switch with the contacts opening and closing, with the switching action controlled by cam lobes and a rubbing block attached to the points. The switching simply connects/disconnects the negative terminal of the coil with chassis ground. With the points closed, current flows through the primary coil winding to create a magnetic field that energizes the windings in the coil secondary. When the points open the current in the primary field stops and the magnetic field collapses — causing the high-voltage energy in the secondary field to discharge through the rotor to the selected spark plug. The Stinger distributor does the same thing, but uses a transistor circuit to do the switching (without the arcing and burning normally found in mechanical points contacts) and the switching is controlled by rotating electromagnetic "contacts" that trigger the transistor switching circuit (there is no physical contact like there is with the points rubbing block sliding on a distributor cam lobe).

In any case, the on/off switching in the Stinger distributor still turns the coil on and off by controlling the connection of the negative coil terminal to chassis ground. The Corsa or Spyder tachometer simply monitors this switching action with an extra sensor wire that is attached to the ignition coil negative terminal. The tachometer wire presents a high impedance input to the coil terminal, so the coil does not "see" any extra load that would impact the operation between the coil and the distributor.

All this simply means that your Corsa tachometer can remain connected to the coil negative terminal and will function as normal. This is also true if a high performance coil is substituted that is being powered by a full 12 VDC with no ballast resistor in the circuit.

The Stinger distributor functions electrically as a modern substitute for the aging and obsolete Corvair Delco distributor. It still provides on/off switching between the coil and ground, and it still uses a rotor and distributor cap to provide the high voltage coil output switching to the six spark plugs. The differences are that the Stinger distributor uses bearings and is new for more precision control of its internal components. Electronic switching takes the place of physical ignition points so that dwell and timing is not subject to physical wear and the timing settings remain constant — eliminating the need for periodic physical tune-ups to adjust/replace the points. The rotor and Stinger cap are a somewhat improved design that is less-prone to deterioration in operation as it routes the coil high voltage output to the spark plugs. It presents a reliability factor that is comparable to that found in modern automobiles, which improves Corvair operation and reliability and reduces periodic maintenance. It also provides for performance tuning in the centrifugal advance to make it easier to make performance changes to match performance modifications that are sometimes made to the Corvair engine, such as changes in the camshaft design and timing, carburetion or electronic fuel injection, turbocharging changes, etc.
Brad Bodie
Lake Chatuge, North Carolina
Image 1966 Corvair Corsa Convertible

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