Cruddy Electricals

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erco
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

I think I got my money's worth out of the original horn relay. Wore a hole right through the upper contact! Zero connection, must have been a buzzer at some point in its life.

And from the looks of the voltage regulator's internals, it's also time to replace. :)
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66vairguy
Posts: 4531
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by 66vairguy »

What year is your car? Supposedly the the "key" buzzer horn relay was also a buzzer. I think was implemented in 1968, maybe 67.

Not sure were you are located, but out West I've never seen corrosion that bad.

The new replacement electromechanical voltage regulators have a poor reputation. Cheaply built. If built as well as the old DELCO voltage regulators the cost would be a couple hundred dollars at least. So the repros are cheap in price and function. I'd recommend a good solid state replacement regulator. Beware the cheapy units as some have reported they don't operate the GEN/FAN warning lamp - not good!
erco
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

'67 Monza coupe. Never seen nor heard a key buzzer, but it's shown in the wiring diagram. If anyone knows where it is and what it looks like, please advise. Would love to get everything working again.

I got a $17 SS voltage regulator and the last $52 alternator from Amazon. Ruined it for everyone else. Hope they work, I won't fire up the motor for another month or two.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DTM338N

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DUK72M
erco
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

Those 3 screws holding the voltage regulator on the firewall put up an unexpected fight. I wasn't sure exactly what I was up against, I held the backside "nuts" (well the two I could reach) blind and tried to back out the screws but nothing was budging, then I tried some big cutters on the screws to no avail. Finally I got one out and see that there are nuts embedded inside the rubber press-in grommets, but the nuts were turning so no unscrewing was going on. Mangled 'em all. Clark's catalog makes it sound like these always need replacing. Not planning to order & wait, I may just use 3/8 grommets with nuts & bolts. The solid state regulator I'm installing is very lightweight and presumably less sensitive to vibration than the OEM electromechanical type.
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by joelsplace »

Common item that you can buy at hardware store.
Well nuts, EPDM rubber with brass insert
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
erco
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

Great tip, TYVM! "Well nut" filed mentally for future reference. Not to confused with wellness nuts.

A quick Google turns up several, for instance: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-24-x-1 ... ut/3012493

Just gotta find the right OD for the 3/8" holes.
Wagon Master
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by Wagon Master »

How many $47.00 alternators do you want?

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-star ... icle=false
erco
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

I tried that but my local Autozone can't get alternators and the website says out of stock. I nabbed the only $49 alternator off Amazon. Starters are even harder to find. I ended up buying brushes, bushings, a new end cap, solenoid & starter drive for mine.

Who knew Walmart had starter end caps? Sorry, once again I got the only one! https://www.walmart.com/ip/New-60-66-Ge ... /542721660
erco
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

@joelsplace: The well nuts you suggested worked perfectly, I got them locally at Lowe's. These fit perfectly, I even reused my original bolts! Thanks again! https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-24-x-1 ... ut/3012493
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terribleted
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by terribleted »

On many of these cars complete replacement of the electrical system with new bulbs, wiring, and components is the best course of action.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by joelsplace »

Glad it worked for you!
Thanks for the Lowes number.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
erco
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

Is the condenser on the voltage regulator necessary on a solid state type? The engineer in me thinks it's gotta be a bandaid for the points in the original electromechanical VR, either for point life or AM radio noise suppression. And likely not needed for a solid state type.

Here's a $25 unit, likely unnecessary ... says 0.5 mF, probably 0.47 microfarad. https://www.ebay.com/itm/64-74-GM-OEM-R ... 0914563955

Discussion at https://www.motorsforum.com/tech/what-s ... 52309-.htm

Related, a distributor condenser is about 0.22 microfarad.
erco
Posts: 1489
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

Worked on my starter today. I've never had a problem with it, never even opened it up since I bought the car in 1980. But since it sat for 20 years I figured it was time, maybe it was as bad off as my horn relay & voltage regulator. I had bought a bunch of parts for it. Dirty, but it was in great shape internally. The bushings were so tight I didn't even replace them, just cleaned & lubed. Replaced the solenoid, brushes, & starter drive (bendix). Removed from car and all work done in about 2 hours, easy peezy. She looks good and fired right up when I bench tested using jumper cables.

Guess I'll save my 4-pack of bushings and NOS end cap w/bushing for a swap meet.

I just found this nice rebuild kit tonight on ebay. I would have bought that had I seen it previously. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Corvair-Starte ... 3576906532
joelsplace
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 pm
Location: Northlake, TX

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by joelsplace »

Thanks for the kit link.
Keep your old solenoid. New one are often very poor quality and don't last long. I've quit replacing them unless they are dead and when I need one I dig through old ones to find a good one. The last starter I rebuilt needed bushings again about 10k later so I guess the new bushings I used were poor quality also. I found some at Rock Auto marked Clevite with dimples so we'll see how they hold up.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
erco
Posts: 1489
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by erco »

Will keep the old solenoid, thanks. The nose end bushings I got (but didn't use) are Standard brand IIRC and had no holes/dump!es. The NOS end cap has the dimpled bushing.

I thought my starter was pretty clean until I saw this guy's. Must have been replaced recently.

Last edited by erco on Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
66vairguy
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Re: Cruddy Electricals

Post by 66vairguy »

Many years ago a fellow in one of the Midwest clubs wrote an article about how the new solenoids weighed LESS. The conclusion was they contained less cooper wiring (which is a relatively expensive component). He noticed the solenoid came with a lower tension return spring - HMMMM. Sure enough if he used the original higher tension return spring the new solenoid engagement was intermittent. He put the "new" lower tension spring in and the solenoid worked. Basically some clever manufacture found a way to save money by making a less robust solenoid.

Over the decades I've seen more of this as the old components are not used, or have changed considerably, on modern cars (starters, ignition coils, carburetors, etc.). The OEM folks use cheaper off shore companies to make low demand parts. There are exceptions. Some of the high end old cars have owners with adequate finances to pay a premium for good parts. Mercedes has a division that claims to make ANY part needed for an older Mercedes to proper specifications IF you can pay the cost.
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