65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

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Mcwho
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65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

When going in reverse, I sometimes get a clunk clunk clunk. If I can back out of the garage the fwd gears are mostly ok. It's the muncie tranny I believe. Reverse is to the left and forward. I do have the linkage kit from Clark's and can replace parts. Just wonder if anyone has had this and could it be something in the shifter below the shifter lever between the front seats. I saw a vid on utube that is pretty good. Also had another corvair owner give his opinion. His take away was that it should not be as difficult to get into reverse as it does.

Thank
Bob

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1965 Corvair Monza Coupe 110, 4 speed, Liberty Blue

joelsplace
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by joelsplace »

Clunking is bad. If it won't shift to reverse at all it would be the linkage. All Corvair manual transmissions were Saginaws. There was a major change in '66.
114 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX

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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

Upon further research I see that joelspace is correct about it being a saginaw tranny. I have the Haggerty vid from utube and the complete kit from Clark's (c10293) how hard can it be, anyone done this ?
joelsplace wrote:Clunking is bad. If it won't shift to reverse at all it would be the linkage. All Corvair manual transmissions were Saginaws. There was a major change in '66.
T

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1965 Corvair Monza Coupe 110, 4 speed, Liberty Blue

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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

Looks like I am the only one who have had shift linkage issues...

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1965 Corvair Monza Coupe 110, 4 speed, Liberty Blue

joelsplace
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by joelsplace »

That is a totally subjective question. I think it's easy. You many think it's difficult. Either way it doesn't appear to fit the description of your problem and you didn't clarify what your symptoms are. Give some more info and I'm sure people will chime in.
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flat6_musik
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by flat6_musik »

I recently bought my 2nd corsa and the previous owner said it came with the short throw shifter kit. It would NOT go into reverse hardly at all, maybe after about 5 minutes of thrashing the shift lever around.

So I took the lever out, removed the spacer/adapter (the kit) and since then......perfect!
Last edited by flat6_musik on Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

66vairguy
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by 66vairguy »

flat6_musik wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:08 pm
I recently bought my 2nd corsa and the previous owner said it came with the short throw shift kit. It would NOT go into reverse hardly at all, maybe after about 5 minutes of thrashing the shift lever around.

So I took the lever out, removed the spacer/adapter and since then......perfect!
Yes the "short shift" kit has that issue. One reason I won't use one.

As for as Mcwho's CLUNK. That could be anything from a linkage problem to a transmission problem. As far as shift issues go - the list I could post would take a LOT of text. Shifter wear, shift tube bushings, coupler at transmission, damage shift parts in the transmission, etc.

Sometimes you just have to find a knowledgeable Corvair mechanic and PAY to get things sorted out.

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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

Ok, fair enough. I am 30 m north of orlando and 25 m south of daytona. Have talked to one place that runs a full time shop and I am in line and number 9 in his queue.

The corvair monza I have owned for 2 years. Clean and droves nice. I dont beat it. My skill level is this, used to do autocross w alfas in chicago. Maintained and changed cams and some stuff. Also built a ffr kit cobra. Can do basic and mid level mech work, as once I fixed a synchro on a fiat 124 spider.the Clunking sounds like the gears are trying to engage but are slipping past each other. In neutral there is still some engagement as when I release the clutch (in neutral) i get grinding as well. I have found a vw specialist local that does a lot of vw bugs and k this. I just dont relish being under my car in 90 degree heat here in florida.

Bob

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flat6_musik
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by flat6_musik »

It sounds as though you are easily well-versed enough to dive into this shifter issue. I'd bet that there's more than a 50% chance of it being outside the trans.....shifter related, that is.

joelsplace
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by joelsplace »

Put it in reverse with the engine off, start it and see if it will back up. Clunking and grinding are completely different in my vocabulary so I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying. Grinding is two gears spinning against each other. Clunking is banging like something is loose, broken or out of place.
If it is grinding in neutral the transmission and or differential have issues. It could be as simple as missing detents from someone thinking those were drain plugs.
If a short shift kit is installed properly it is amazing. I have one in one of my Corvairs and I wish I could get to the point in my wish list to have them in all of them with manual transmissions. Every time I drive that car I think "Wow".
114 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

Ok according to your def its grinding. Started in rev snd it feels as If the teeth of a geaR are barely catching on the. Teeth of another gear. Then they slip past and catch on another gear. It continues to do this click click click click, there is also a mechanical hesitation. The only issue I have of doing it myself is the heat right now.

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1965 Corvair Monza Coupe 110, 4 speed, Liberty Blue

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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

Video

https://youtu.be/mCnHssAuXhk

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erco
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by erco »

Looks like reverse gear not fully engaging due to shifter slop, not enough throw? Did you check the clevis pin at the tranny? That wore and caused sloppy shifts on mine. 10-second pin swap was quick & easy. http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/search.cgi?part=C43

Next, disconnect shift coupler (remove that clevis pin) and shift into reverse directly at the tranny, using small screwdriver thru clevis hole. Then start car and let clutch out slowly to see if reverse has engaged better.

66vairguy
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by 66vairguy »

Never heard that sound before, like a leaf mulcher!! Does the car move or just sit there making that noise? Always helps to have someone move the shifter while you are observing the end at the transmission (engine off of course). You may see something loose or a bad coupler.

Oh! You have a tweety bird sound, very regular and increases frequency with RPM. I'll bet that is a blown head gasket on one cylinder. Heard it few times. No fun to find in 90F heat! If it is not fixed in time, it will burn the cylinder edge where it contacts the gasket and you'll need a new cylinder.

Your shifter motion seems excessive! GRAB the shifter knob in neutral and see if the knob and lever turn CCW or CW more than a little. If so the shifter is worn and the only fix I know of is to dismantle it and weld up the lower pivot cup. Install new guide pins and the plastic washer in the bottom of the lower half pivot ball. Most folks just replace the pins (they are an odd size, not standard SAE diameter, but close). A small lathe come in handy, or just sand the rod stock down evenly. It doesn't take much. DO NOT FORCE THE PINS INTO THE ALUMINUM SHIFTER HOUSING. Very little pressure is needed to remove and install pins. If you are like some "fiscally conservative" Corvair owners you just rotate the pins so an unworn area in in the shifter upper cup slots. BEWARE there is a high tension spring inside the shifter so caution is suggested when rotating the retaining plage (access from bottom of shifter AFTER it is out of the car. There are shims between the shifter an floor. NOTE WERE THEY ARE!!

Check the rear coupler. The rubber can fail, the pin that goes through the coupler and transmission shift lever wears. Also the coupler has a slot in the end were it slides into shifter tube. The shifter tube had a slot cut and part of the metal was bent down to fit in the coupler shaft slot so it won't slip and rotate. Sometimes the metal tab is broken off. It can be fixed by cutting back the slot about 1/8" and bending a new metal tab down. Once adjusted you tighten the clamp.

The inner tube fits in bushings at each end of the outer tube. When new they were plastic bushings and tend to fail, especially after a a few decades. They may have been replaced with bronze bushing, maybe not. This is not a simple - "just stick in the new bushings" deal. The inner tube is usually NOT round. I have no idea why, maybe from the factory, but most I do are oval. A caliper, soft jaw vice, and some sanding will fix it. Then if the rod is still tight in the new bushings you have to hone the bushings with a small import car wheel cylinder hone. If you find cardboard wrapped around the inner tube - throw it away. It was only there to prevent rattles on rough roads. It falls apart and the inner tube will bind. No paint on inner or inside outer tube. Wipe both down with a chassis grease - AND DO NOT PACK THE TUBE FULL OF GREASE!!

I'm retired so I have the time to sort out a shifter, but it is A LOT OF WORK to do a thorough job. The upside is I'm not paying someone and can take the time to get it right. Once done a stock Corvair shifter is adequate and reliable.

FINALLY - when was the the last time you checked the transaxle lube??? Our local transaxle guru likes to say "THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF TRANSAXLE FAILURES IS OLD WORN OUT LUBRICANT".

Good luck.

joelsplace
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by joelsplace »

It sounds like broken spider gears to me but you said the forward gears are "mostly" ok. Not sure what that means.
In the video it appeared to make the same noise and not move in first and reverse.
114 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
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Mcwho
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Re: 65 monza 4 speed w shifter issue.

Post by Mcwho »

I am retired and and would love to dig into this project if I were younger. The monza is not a daily driver, mostly 15 mile drives to car events. I dont have a garage big enough to take this car apart. So far the work needed sounds like it has grown from not too difficult to the whole driveline. Any one know mechanic in central florida? I dont mind paying a reasonable mechanic. I have owned the car for 2 years now.

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1965 Corvair Monza Coupe 110, 4 speed, Liberty Blue

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