65-69 Suspension on 64?

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terribleted
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by terribleted »

Deadwolf wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:53 am
The big one I am wondering about is can I fit a LM front cross member into an EM without a bunch of fabrication?
The LM front crossmember will bolt right in to an early.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
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Deadwolf
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by Deadwolf »

terribleted wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:07 am
Deadwolf wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:53 am
The big one I am wondering about is can I fit a LM front cross member into an EM without a bunch of fabrication?
The LM front crossmember will bolt right in to an early.
Is this the easiest way to change the front to 5 lug pattern? Or can I just use LM spindles and/or just hubs? I know the rear has to have the studs pushed out, holes welded shut and then the new pattern drilled as the LM axles are not the same.
1963 Impala SS convertible project
1963 Monza Spyder project
1963 Impala coupe Pro Street Project
1964 Monza Parts car
1963 Impala hard top sedan parts car
66vairguy
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by 66vairguy »

If it was a 60-63 Corvair there is some argument for going to a LM suspension.

The 64 suspension was the best of the EM's with the addition of the rear leaf spring. The handling improvement was noticeable. About the only thing you'll gain, based on what I've read, with the LM suspension is a better ride and some improvement in handling, but to me it's not worth the effort.

Not to mention the 64 Corvair is the most sought after EM. A shame to cut one up to add the LM suspension. Better to find a pre 64 if you want to install the LM suspension. Just my 2 cents.
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Deadwolf
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by Deadwolf »

66vairguy wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:02 am If it was a 60-63 Corvair there is some argument for going to a LM suspension.

The 64 suspension was the best of the EM's with the addition of the rear leaf spring. The handling improvement was noticeable. About the only thing you'll gain, based on what I've read, with the LM suspension is a better ride and some improvement in handling, but to me it's not worth the effort.

Not to mention the 64 Corvair is the most sought after EM. A shame to cut one up to add the LM suspension. Better to find a pre 64 if you want to install the LM suspension. Just my 2 cents.
I actually am building a 1963 spider, but I have a 1964 parts car. I have the rear leaf and arms for bolting, but I don’t have the 1964 differential it bolts too making the rear set up useless to me. My 63 spider already has a front sway bar, so I don’t think I gain much to just swap in the 64 front. I’m looking more at going to 5 lug as I gain a lot of options with rims if I do that.
1963 Impala SS convertible project
1963 Monza Spyder project
1963 Impala coupe Pro Street Project
1964 Monza Parts car
1963 Impala hard top sedan parts car
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by terribleted »

Deadwolf wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:36 am
terribleted wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:07 am
Deadwolf wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:53 am
The big one I am wondering about is can I fit a LM front cross member into an EM without a bunch of fabrication?
The LM front crossmember will bolt right in to an early.
Is this the easiest way to change the front to 5 lug pattern? Or can I just use LM spindles and/or just hubs? I know the rear has to have the studs pushed out, holes welded shut and then the new pattern drilled as the LM axles are not the same.
I have not done this mod myself. I know that people have and as I recall they used spindles and hubs , but, I am not positive. Perhaps someone who has done this or is more familiar will chime in.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia
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Deadwolf
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by Deadwolf »

66vairguy wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:02 am If it was a 60-63 Corvair there is some argument for going to a LM suspension.

The 64 suspension was the best of the EM's with the addition of the rear leaf spring. The handling improvement was noticeable. About the only thing you'll gain, based on what I've read, with the LM suspension is a better ride and some improvement in handling, but to me it's not worth the effort.

Not to mention the 64 Corvair is the most sought after EM. A shame to cut one up to add the LM suspension. Better to find a pre 64 if you want to install the LM suspension. Just my 2 cents.
1963 Impala SS convertible project
1963 Monza Spyder project
1963 Impala coupe Pro Street Project
1964 Monza Parts car
1963 Impala hard top sedan parts car
erco
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by erco »

Also late to this party, never saw this post until today. '64s are the only EM with a the leaf spring. As a result, they are the best handling of all EMs, representing the highest refinement of swing axle Corvairs. Seems like a shame to cut one up. Tons of work and most likely, the end result would still be inferior to a LM.

The obvious solution is to keep the '64 stock and buy a LM too.
joelsplace
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by joelsplace »

The '63 sway bar is tiny compared to the '64. Huge difference.
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66vairguy
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by 66vairguy »

joelsplace wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:24 pm The '63 sway bar is tiny compared to the '64. Huge difference.
Yes 64 was bigger - some say the 65-69 sway bar is a little bigger diameter, other say no. HOWEVER the LM retaining hardware for the sway bar is more robust. The 64 cars are known for sway bar hardware breaking, at least that's the general consensus.

I recall a good article about a fellow who bolted the LM suspension into a EM wagon, BUT he kept the EM spindles and drums. He reported much improved handling and won at the local Autocross!!

NOTE: The LM front track is slightly wider and the brakes are bigger. So tire fit on an EM has to be checked and of course the rear brakes are too small and out of balance. Yes it can be dealt with, but not easily.
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by joelsplace »

I've heard that about the '64 sway bar but I'm not sure it is accurate. I use nylon bushings in mine and probably drive as hard as anyone and I haven't had any issues yet.
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
StukintheMud
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by StukintheMud »

Just re reading some posts here. Any info on who I could order some solid mounts for the engine and suspension on my '64 from? I'm just starting to get my Spyder going again after a long, long slumber. Cheers
joelsplace
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by joelsplace »

I've never seen any solid engine, transmission or crossmember mounts for sale. I made my own.
Clark's no longer has the nylon control arm bushings. Their supplier died.
The front lower control arm bushing swing through 2 arcs so they either need to be balls or flexible.
Here's what I just ordered for the front reaction rods.
https://opentrackerracing.com/shop/delr ... 9-corvair/
157 Corvairs, 5 Ultravans and counting
Northlake, TX
66vairguy
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by 66vairguy »

StukintheMud wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:13 pm Just re reading some posts here. Any info on who I could order some solid mounts for the engine and suspension on my '64 from? I'm just starting to get my Spyder going again after a long, long slumber. Cheers
Are you going racing? If not you'll be sorry if you use solid mounts for driving on public streets. Track racing cars that are set up for limited suspension travel with big tires benefit, but on REAL public roads the solid mounts beat up the body structure, are noisy, and a lack of compliance can cause awkward suspension movement. Just saying -----

The original 1964 drive reviews gave the Corvair high marks, the biggest issue was the TIRES. Rather than putting a lot of money into suspension mods and solid bushings, I've found spending the money on special (sticky) tires does a lot more tor improve handling for the money spent. Just me.
joelsplace
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by joelsplace »

I've only found it to be harsh on washboard surfaces which I almost never see. All other times it is more compliant because the suspension moves freely.
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StukintheMud
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by StukintheMud »

Thanks for the info. I'll start with the reaction rods, tires and new bushings and go from there. My car is a long way away from being on the road, but at least I'm starting..
66vairguy
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Re: 65-69 Suspension on 64?

Post by 66vairguy »

StukintheMud wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:16 am Thanks for the info. I'll start with the reaction rods, tires and new bushings and go from there. My car is a long way away from being on the road, but at least I'm starting..
If by "reaction rods" you mean the front suspension rods from the lower arm back to the brace with the rubber donuts. Per suggestions I installed the early Chevy II HD reaction rod bushing set. They are beefier than the Corvair and still provide good isolation, but reduce front aft movement during hard stops. Sadly Moog stopped making the part - K6094 see article https://www.stevesnovasite.com/threads/ ... 94.676656/
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