1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

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gauzfather
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1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

What a weekend....Took the car to the alignment shop and was immediately rejected due to lack of front strut bushings! RH side was completely gone and the LH side was blown out. After removing the blown out one, It was very easy to pull it apart and found out that the rubber was an inferior type. Previous owner replaced all of the front suspension components & bushings last November 2017, which tells me he went with what he could find for cheap. Additionally, since it was on the alignment rack, technician also pointed out that the gas tank filler hose was deteriorated and the front brake lines were rusted on the outside. Well, looks like i have a project in front of me. Ordered both front and rear bushings from Clark's, and will order the brake lines, brass blocks and wheel cylinders along with the new gas tank filler hose next month. My intent is to order Clark's pre-bent brake line sets, but wondering if you folks can tell me where to measure the long front to back brake line...according to the parts ordering catalog it states that the long brake line is either a 3/16" or a 1/4" line. Thank you for your help. Steve

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

Measure the long brake line under the dash where it leaves the brass block to head down the tunnel to the rear of the car. In order to replace the front steel lines you will need to remove the fuel tank. If the tank is original to the car I highly recommend you simply replace it. Most old tanks and crudded up inside and often rusty as well (full of little fuel system fouling rust bits if not worse). You can verify tank condition by draining it, removing the sending unit and peering in with a flashlight and inspection mirror.

You said above something about rear bushings. Which ones? If you are talking about strut rod bushing I highly recommend Clark's rebuilt strut rods, altho a little spendy are far better in my opinion ( I have tried other choices) than any strut rod bushings you can buy and install yourself. These bushings are vulcanized into the cleaned and prepared strut rods providing a quality stock replacement unit that is also easy to deal with and simply install.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

gauzfather
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

Thanks Ted. I will take your fuel tank recommendation and go forth...For the brass block under the dash, all 3 lines that I can see look similar in size, since I'm not certain which one runs to the back end of the car..But I'll take a micrometer to it within a day or so to ensure outside diameter. For the rear bushings, I've ordered new stabilizer rods (since LH rod was bent) along with the C10603 bushing set (2 crossmember bushings, stab rod, torque arm & spring seat).

66vairguy
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by 66vairguy »

Just to clarify Ted's statement, the one front metal brake line runs ABOVE the gas tank and can only be replaced (easily) with the gas tank removed.

For the 1966 model year they went to the bigger rear line, but you have to verify a 65 car as some suggest GM started using the bigger rear line during 1965. BTW if you replace the under dash "T" and rear "T" with the 66 size you can run the bigger front to rear line if you want.

Since you are doing so much front end work you might consider removing the front suspension subassembly - easy six bolts IF they are not rusted solid. Makes installing the gas tank easier.

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

gauzfather wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:49 pm
Thanks Ted. I will take your fuel tank recommendation and go forth...For the brass block under the dash, all 3 lines that I can see look similar in size, since I'm not certain which one runs to the back end of the car..But I'll take a micrometer to it within a day or so to ensure outside diameter. For the rear bushings, I've ordered new stabilizer rods (since LH rod was bent) along with the C10603 bushing set (2 crossmember bushings, stab rod, torque arm & spring seat).
The 10603 kit has nothing for the big strut rod bushings. I guess they must be in great condition? To install the parts from 10603 the entire rear suspension will be apart so that the Torque arms can go to the press for the front torque arm bushing change. IF the strut rod bushings are not excellent you should address them now as they will essentially be removed from the car for this other work.

The brake line that runs to the right from the brass block and down into the toe pan cover is the one that goes to the rear.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

gauzfather
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

terribleted wrote:
gauzfather wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:49 pm
Thanks Ted. I will take your fuel tank recommendation and go forth...For the brass block under the dash, all 3 lines that I can see look similar in size, since I'm not certain which one runs to the back end of the car..But I'll take a micrometer to it within a day or so to ensure outside diameter. For the rear bushings, I've ordered new stabilizer rods (since LH rod was bent) along with the C10603 bushing set (2 crossmember bushings, stab rod, torque arm & spring seat).
The 10603 kit has nothing for the big strut rod bushings. I guess they must be in great condition? To install the parts from 10603 the entire rear suspension will be apart so that the Torque arms can go to the press for the front torque arm bushing change. IF the strut rod bushings are not excellent you should address them now as they will essentially be removed from the car for this other work.

The brake line that runs to the right from the brass block and down into the toe pan cover is the one that goes to the rear.
I'll have to take a picture of it and show you what I'm looking at, since I'm new to this.. in words, it's the LH & RH stabilizing rods (Clark's catalog, pg. 163, item 6) and I did order the C2560 bushing sets x2. Steve

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

Yes those are the bushings for the small stabilizer rods from the forward part of the torque arms to the trans mounting crossmember. I am referring to the strut rod bushings. These are the large bushings that are in the ends of part index #14 in the middle diagram on that page. I am partial to the Rebuilt Strut Rods P/N C8235 for replacement as opposed to buying any of the press bushings into the strut rods yourself options. Make sure that the special washers index #10 P/N C638X are in place (4 per strut rod) or get replacements if not sure or badly worn (these are not flat washers they have a raised center on one side that fits into the steel sleeves in the strut rod bushings reducing the diameter of the hole to the proper size for the mounting bolts that go thru them).

The kit C10603 includes the 8 bushings that you will receive in your 2 C2560's (so you will have double of these if you ordered 2C2560 and kit 10603), Coil spring cushions for the top of the coil springs, rear crossmember bushings for where the suspension main crossmember mounts to the body (powertrain removal and rear crossmember removal is necessary to install these), and finally the kit includes the large bushings for the front of the torque arms where they mount into the bracket that mounts them into the body forward of the wheels (toe in adjusting point)(torque arms need to be removed from the car and taken to press for install).


Having all this stuff apart it would be counterproductive to re-install the main strut rods without perfect bushings in both ends:)
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

gauzfather
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

terribleted wrote:Yes those are the bushings for the small stabilizer rods from the forward part of the torque arms to the trans mounting crossmember. I am referring to the strut rod bushings. These are the large bushings that are in the ends of part index #14 in the middle diagram on that page. I am partial to the Rebuilt Strut Rods P/N C8235 for replacement as opposed to buying any of the press bushings into the strut rods yourself options. Make sure that the special washers index #10 P/N C638X are in place (4 per strut rod) or get replacements if not sure or badly worn (these are not flat washers they have a raised center on one side that fits into the steel sleeves in the strut rod bushings reducing the diameter of the hole to the proper size for the mounting bolts that go thru them).

The kit C10603 includes the 8 bushings that you will receive in your 2 C2560's (so you will have double of these if you ordered 2C2560 and kit 10603), Coil spring cushions for the top of the coil springs, rear crossmember bushings for where the suspension main crossmember mounts to the body (powertrain removal and rear crossmember removal is necessary to install these), and finally the kit includes the large bushings for the front of the torque arms where they mount into the bracket that mounts them into the body forward of the wheels (toe in adjusting point)(torque arms need to be removed from the car and taken to press for install).


Having all this stuff apart it would be counterproductive to re-install the main strut rods without perfect bushings in both ends:)
Thank you for your support. I'll see if I can stop the order and re engage this

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

There is a very good chance you need all these parts, except of course the 2 sets of stabilizer rod bushings. I had a feeling you may not have known what it took to install these items.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

gauzfather
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

Here's a Progress update:

Front suspension crossmember is removed and cleaned. Upper and lower a-arm bushings replaced and upper a-arms reinstalled onto the crossmember. Having troubles with the lower a-arm installation (is it okay to spread the lower a-arm mounting points?) When I removed the old lower a-arm caster bolts, there was no washers in between the a-arm themselves and the crossmember. hmmmm----possible cause of all of the bushings going bad?). Old fuel tank removed and working the stainless steel brake line installations (just on the front for now- will keep it dry until I can push it to my neighbors house since he has a Lift to replace the long line & rear lines. Obtained the Clark's ultimate gas tank setup and putting that together as well to get it ready for installation. Swaybar bushings replaced. Phew! Getting there....

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CorvairCon65
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by CorvairCon65 »

When you fit the new tank, you will need to hammer a swage line into the tank to make it fit (use old tank as example).
Also forget about the tank retaining straps that is included in the kit as it doesn't fit; keep your old one as it will do a better job.
Just two things I learnt from installing the same kit on mine.

gauzfather
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

Great to know! Thank you for the tips! Still learning....

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

Odd I have never hammered any recess into any new tank and I have done a number with no issue. The straps and bolts Clark's supplies are not that great (but will work (seems like I had to thread J-bolts a little farther than supplied for them to get tight when using repro straps and bolts) and I will use originals if they are in good shape.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

gauzfather wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:17 pm
Here's a Progress update:

Front suspension crossmember is removed and cleaned. Upper and lower a-arm bushings replaced and upper a-arms reinstalled onto the crossmember. Having troubles with the lower a-arm installation (is it okay to spread the lower a-arm mounting points?) When I removed the old lower a-arm caster bolts, there was no washers in between the a-arm themselves and the crossmember. hmmmm----possible cause of all of the bushings going bad?). Old fuel tank removed and working the stainless steel brake line installations (just on the front for now- will keep it dry until I can push it to my neighbors house since he has a Lift to replace the long line & rear lines. Obtained the Clark's ultimate gas tank setup and putting that together as well to get it ready for installation. Swaybar bushings replaced. Phew! Getting there....
You must have the proper SPECIAL WASHERS (these are not flat washers, but are similar to the washers used at the rear strut rod bushings just smaller...if you do not have these get them from Clark's) to install the lower A-arms into the crossmember. These washers space the A-arms in the crossmamber tabs and also reduce the diameter of the holes in the center sleeve to the proper diameter of the bolts AND the washers ride on the bolts when the arm moves not on the sleeves. Without the proper SPECIAL WASHERS the control arms will flop around in the crossmember like fish fresh out of the water making proper alignment impossible.
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

gauzfather
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 3:34 am

Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by gauzfather »

terribleted wrote:
gauzfather wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:17 pm
Here's a Progress update:

Front suspension crossmember is removed and cleaned. Upper and lower a-arm bushings replaced and upper a-arms reinstalled onto the crossmember. Having troubles with the lower a-arm installation (is it okay to spread the lower a-arm mounting points?) When I removed the old lower a-arm caster bolts, there was no washers in between the a-arm themselves and the crossmember. hmmmm----possible cause of all of the bushings going bad?). Old fuel tank removed and working the stainless steel brake line installations (just on the front for now- will keep it dry until I can push it to my neighbors house since he has a Lift to replace the long line & rear lines. Obtained the Clark's ultimate gas tank setup and putting that together as well to get it ready for installation. Swaybar bushings replaced. Phew! Getting there....
You must have the proper SPECIAL WASHERS (these are not flat washers, but are similar to the washers used at the rear strut rod bushings just smaller...if you do not have these get them from Clark's) to install the lower A-arms into the crossmember. These washers space the A-arms in the crossmamber tabs and also reduce the diameter of the holes in the center sleeve to the proper diameter of the bolts AND the washers ride on the bolts when the arm moves not on the sleeves. Without the proper SPECIAL WASHERS the control arms will flop around in the crossmember like fish fresh out of the water making proper alignment impossible.
Hi Ted. I have received the special washers you mentioned(ordered C632R complete caster bolts x2) and are installed. Crossmember installed, spindles installed, and waiting for 2 more control rod bolts to complete it all.

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terribleted
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Re: 1965 Monza Convertible 140 suspension/steering

Post by terribleted »

:tu:
Corvair guy since 1982. I have personally restored at least 20 Vairs, many of them restored ground up.
Currently working full time repairing Corvairs and restoring old cars.
https://www.facebook.com/tedsautorestoration/

Located in Snellville, Georgia

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